Sarah Palin: Good, Bad or just the wrong choice?

[Mr. P]

I'm with you 100% on this one!

Later

I have heard talk that Palin is trying to be the face of the Party now too...that she has visions of being the nominee for the next go round!

She is a retard...I do not get how this can even be a consideration!

[Mr. P]

Me too. I just read that article and called my wife in frustration to tell her I'm voting for Obama. I shit you not.

Honestly...I cannot see how anyone would vote for Palin/McCain at this point. At least anyone who really thinks about things. Obama may not be perfect to all, but he is obviously the guy that has the best chance to work with both parties and has the composure of a President. And he is damn intelligent.

I still do not know how any other than the base can be undecided.

[Chris OConnor]

Come on, Nick. There are plenty of negatives to Obama. Don't be so biased that you skip right over his weaknesses. I'm at least willing to admit the strengths and weaknesses in both candidates. This isn't so glaringly obvious of a choice for millions of people and we're not all morons. It is more of a teeter-totter with Obama lower down than McCain. But both are humans with strengths and weaknesses.

Honestly...I cannot see how anyone would vote for Palin/McCain at this point. At least anyone who really thinks about things.

You have to know that a sentence such as this is an extreme insult and personal cut to the millions and millions of thinking and caring conservatives. And I'm one of them. You're implying that conservatives that are voting for McCain aren't thinking about things as deeply or rationally as you, and this is not necessarily the case. Some people simply feel McCain is better able to defend the US against terrorism. Some people don't believe in "redistributing the wealth." Some people find Obama's ties to several shady characters as unacceptable and a direct reflection on his judgment.

You're insulting me when you make comments about how thinking people could never vote for McCain. I tend to think I'm a thinking person. Most people that know me consider me to be a deep thinker. So your words cut and I take them very personally.

[Mr. P]

Come on, Nick. There are plenty of negatives to Obama. Don't be so biased that you skip right over his weaknesses.

I do not think I said Obama did not have weaknesses....but the weaknesses McCain has been beating into the ground are not anything of any real concern or are just not as poignant as the sheep believe. And from what I have seen...McCain or Republicans have had contact with the same people in the same ways Obama has. Obama is not a terrorist...no matter how briefly he may have been in contact with people who we consider terrorists...and the word is loosing its import because of overuse BTW.

Only the base is really on the McCain side now Chris (you and a few other of my life-long Republican friends tell me this is true!!)...and of course there may be some others, but my point is they are pandering to the base. I used to like and respect McCain. No more...he is erratic and an attack machine now.

Honestly...I cannot see how anyone would vote for Palin/McCain at this point. At least anyone who really thinks about things.

You have to know that a sentence such as this is an extreme insult and personal cut to the millions and millions of thinking and caring conservatives. And I'm one of them.

I am sure my comments about the Christian religion & Christians rile their feathers too, but I stand by those as well...and...you are not voting for McCain. So...I do not see the problem.

You're implying that conservatives that are voting for McCain aren't thinking about things as deeply or rationally as you, and this is not necessarily the case. Some people simply feel McCain is better able to defend the US against terrorism. Some people don't believe in "redistributing the wealth." Some people find Obama's ties to several shady characters as unacceptable and a direct reflection on his judgment.

You're insulting me when you make comments about how thinking people could never vote for McCain. I tend to think I'm a thinking person.

Yeah but...you are voting for Obama. I do not see where you are getting so upset. lol

[Mr. P]

Another point...all the Republicans I respect are pretty much in Obama's court. Will, Buffett, Powell, and others have endorsed Obama because he is the obvious choice. Obama represents a forward looking change, a generational change and a positive outlook. If these prominant Republicans are on board, even if their choice was hard for them, then for the majority of us, it should be an easier choice. Obama is not as bad as he is being made out to be by the Palin Campaign. Honestly Chris...just the Palin factor is enough for me and many others.

I am an Independent BTW. I voted for Bush 1 and then Clinton. I did not vote for Bush 2 because now we are seeing the disaster he was. I saw that in him from the get go. Again. McCain was a favorite of mine until his implosion this year.

From republicansforobama.org:

Fellow Republicans,

When deciding which candidate is best to now lead our nation, we ask that you consider supporting Senator Barack Obama. The U.S. faces serious challenges that are not being addressed by our political leaders. Elected officials of both sides have found it easier to appease their parties' fringes to win elections, and media companies choose to shock, amuse and divide us. In the meantime, the problems we face as a nation grow as they are passed on to future generations.

We need a leader who can lay the foundations of another American CenturyAnother point...all the Republicans I respect are pretty much in Obama's court. Will, Buffett, Powell, and others have endorsed Obama because he is the obvious choice. Obama represents a forward looking change, a generational change and a positive outlook. If these prominant Republicans are on board, even if their choice was hard for them, then for the majority of us, it should be an easier choice. Obama is not as bad as he is being made out to be by the Palin Campaign. Honestly Chris...just the Palin factor is enough for me and many others.

I am an Independent BTW. I voted for Bush 1 and then Clinton. I did not vote for Bush 2 because now we are seeing the disaster he was. I saw that in him from the get go. Again. McCain was a favorite of mine until his implosion this year.

From republicansforobama.org:

Fellow Republicans,

When deciding which candidate is best to now lead our nation, we ask that you consider supporting Senator Barack Obama. The U.S. faces serious challenges that are not being addressed by our political leaders. Elected officials of both sides have found it easier to appease their parties' fringes to win elections, and media companies choose to shock, amuse and divide us. In the meantime, the problems we face as a nation grow as they are passed on to future generations.

We need a leader who can lay the foundations of another American Century-someone who can get past our partisan and ideological divisions, as we strengthen our standing in the world and tackle the challenges we face at home. We need a leader who understands our differences, but who also knows the importance of finding common ground. While we continue to debate and address many issues on which we all have strong opinions-abortion, gay rights, the relationship between church and state, to name a few-we need a leader who can command the support needed to break our government's paralysis and meet the growing challenges we face as a nation.

Senator Obama is the one candidate who can unite the American majority that wants to move forward and improve the long-term economic well-being and independence of our nation.

[Robert Tulip]

Come on, Nick. There are plenty of negatives to Obama. Don't be so biased that you skip right over his weaknesses. I'm at least willing to admit the strengths and weaknesses in both candidates. This isn't so glaringly obvious of a choice for millions of people and we're not all morons. It is more of a teeter-totter with Obama lower down than McCain. But both are humans with strengths and weaknesses.

Honestly...I cannot see how anyone would vote for Palin/McCain at this point. At least anyone who really thinks about things.

You have to know that a sentence such as this is an extreme insult and personal cut to the millions and millions of thinking and caring conservatives. And I'm one of them. You're implying that conservatives that are voting for McCain aren't thinking about things as deeply or rationally as you, and this is not necessarily the case. Some people simply feel McCain is better able to defend the US against terrorism. Some people don't believe in "redistributing the wealth." Some people find Obama's ties to several shady characters as unacceptable and a direct reflection on his judgment. You're insulting me when you make comments about how thinking people could never vote for McCain. I tend to think I'm a thinking person. Most people that know me consider me to be a deep thinker. So your words cut and I take them very personally.

You guys know the whole world is watching this election with great interest. What I admire about Chris's comments here is that he shows it is possible to be intelligent and conservative. This booktalk website would not be possible without this combination.

The superficial impression - especially looking at Palin - is that Republicans are rednecks and the liberals are the only ones with brains. I happen to greatly admire the Republican Party, because they are supported by the can-do people who built America. It looks sort of like the Democrats want to say to Republicans, thanks for all your hard work in building successful businesses, etc, now we will come along and give your money away to people who didn't earn it. That mentality is destructive of enterprise, initiative, incentive and economic growth. This is why McCain's point about wealth-creators versus wealth-distributors is a real issue. That is a fairly crude exaggeration, and Bush's tax cuts for the rich and deregulation of the finance sector took things too far the other way, but there is an issue here about how to sustain the dynamic entrepreneurial culture that built the USA. No one ever got rich as an honest recipient of charity.

This is where the Republican talk about freedom has a real economic and social meaning which liberals just don't get. The problem as I see it is that this good essence of Republicanism - freedom - is allied to an ignorant Christian base, and to an excessive level of militarisation. The Christian military culture is so powerful in the USA that both sides of politics need to support it. The Democrats are more critical of the weaknesses in mainstream America, and more capable of dialogue with America's enemies, but they also bring some prejudiced baggage which deserves careful analysis without partisan name calling.

[Ophelia]

Robert Tulip wrote:

What I admire about Chris's comments here is that he shows it is possible to be intelligent and conservative.

Several Republican presidents have made us forget about this combination, but yes, I can easily imagine that it is possible to be republican and intelligent-- you need intelligence to be successful in business, but what I am worried about Republicans (though not about Chris in particular) is the (lack of) combination of Republican and charity, or better said solidarity. George Bush talked about something like "Compassionate Republicans" years ago, but I'm not impressed by the way he put this into practice.

You're right that that republicans made the US into the flourishing economy that it is, but my word what a harsh world it is, with its home evictions, lack of health care for many people...

No one ever got rich as an honest recipient of charity.

It always comes back to what one's priorities are. When there is so little charity or solidarity, suffering is very real.
I saw a report on television a few weeks ago. It was an American charity that had put together doctors and equipment that they meant to take to treat people in the third world. Then they saw that they didn't need to go so far, and got busy treating Americans who hadn't had their teeth fixed in years or who couldn't afford glasses. One man drove to work every day, seeing very little, but could not afford to see a doctor.

If this was my country things like this would be more important than knowing how many billion dollars the clever entrepreneurs brought to the nation-- and refused to share.

[Chris OConnor]

If this was my country things like this would be more important than knowing how many billion dollars the clever entrepreneurs brought to the nation-- and refused to share.

This is precisely the problem I have with the liberal or socialist mentality. Who said anyone should "share" what they earn with anyone other than their family or friends? Isn't creating businesses and jobs and salaries a contribution to the world? The entrepreneur who starts a chain of coffee shops and thereby hires 132,000 employees is creating immense value. Why is success so frowned upon by liberals and socialists? This annoys me to no end.

Want more money? Go earn some. There are nights I work till 7:00 am busting my ass to earn a living. Yes, I earn more than the average American. I also work FAR harder and for longer hours. I'm always analyzing the situation and thinking of how I can create more value and a higher standard of living for myself and those I love. So why should I be asked to take my 16 hours day and hand it over to the next guy? Is this what makes me a good person? ....reaching into my pocket and handing over some cash?

Jesus, I am changing to being an Independent very soon, but conversations like this drive home the point of why I could NEVER be a Democrat. And by the way...I personally donate more than anyone else I know. I give to the homeless. I buy and ship Christmas presents to an orphanage every single year. I just don't think I'm doing as much good in the world as I do when I work hard and create jobs and opportunities for other people.

[Mr. P]

The superficial impression - especially looking at Palin - is that Republicans are rednecks and the liberals are the only ones with brains. I happen to greatly admire the Republican Party, because they are supported by the can-do people who built America. It looks sort of like the Democrats want to say to Republicans, thanks for all your hard work in building successful businesses, etc, now we will come along and give your money away to people who didn't earn it.

Are you saying that only Republicans are business successes? I know at least one Democrat that I can name that was a big success at business...Jon Corzine.

Income tax has been with us for a while now...and when did it start? During the Civil War...by whom? Republican Abe Lincoln. And guess what...there was a graduated tax system based on income levels. Those who made more paid more. As we have seen, there are those 'earning' tens and hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate America...but god ofrbid we raise the minimum wage. Please guys....please. We see how businesses cannot and will not regulate themselves. Profit rules and only for those at the top. No one in my opinion 'earns' hundreds of millions of dollars a year.

We need taxes. Where would military funding come from? Roads? Now some people differ on what to spend our taxes on. Military only, national security, helping those who need help (including banks and investment companies now too huh?) and educating our children so that this nation can be strong in the right ways.

This is where the Republican talk about freedom has a real economic and social meaning which liberals just don't get. The problem as I see it is that this good essence of Republicanism - freedom - is allied to an ignorant Christian base, and to an excessive level of militarisation. The Christian military culture is so powerful in the USA that both sides of politics need to support it. The Democrats are more critical of the weaknesses in mainstream America, and more capable of dialogue with America's enemies, but they also bring some prejudiced baggage which deserves careful analysis without partisan name calling.

Who is name calling in this election boys? Democrats get the idea of freedom...which is why so many Democrats have been elected throughout our history. America saw it greatest growth since FDR...some of our 'socialist' policies cannot be all that bad. Since the majority Republican influence over the past 30 years, we have been in decline and now have to worry about, if one calls it worry, other nations become more innovative than we are. We lost our edge...because education is just not a strong point in our nation anymore. It is actually frowned upon by many.

I listed the republicans I respect...and they are all intellectual so your poke about 'liberals' making Republicans lok like rubes is out of line. Those that are considered the Republican intellectuals are for Obama for the most part.

If creating jobs is the goal and gift of business...why is the outsourcing debate even going on....because profit rules. Can't pay Americans a good wage because it eats into profits. See the flaw there boys?

[Mr. P]

This is precisely the problem I have with the liberal or socialist mentality. Who said anyone should "share" what they earn with anyone other than their family or friends? Isn't creating businesses and jobs and salaries a contribution to the world?

So you are against outsourcing...good.

The entrepreneur who starts a chain of coffee shops and thereby hires 132,000 employees is creating immense value. Why is success so frowned upon by liberals and socialists? This annoys me to no end.

It is not frowned upon. You are just using Conservative talking points here.

Want more money? Go earn some. There are nights I work till 7:00 am busting my ass to earn a living. Yes, I earn more than the average American. I also work FAR harder and for longer hours.

Sorry Chris...but you work til 7? What about the people who work back breaking jobs, or two or three, for minimum wage just to eat and pay their bills? It is not just as easy as getting a job that pays what you want. It is what is out there on offer...and with minimum wage at ridiculous levels, there is no getting ahead. It is not how hard you work in this country...it is how well you buy into the what you are expected to do with your life in the way you are expected to do. Look where we are now because of the greed and sense of entitlement we have all been told is our right.

You and I work far less and less hard than many people I know and that are out there keeping the economy going at menial, low wage jobs. I know...they can or shoudl better themselves. Point is, we need people doing these jobs so not every CAN succeed to the level of above average. All classes are needed....the middle class the most. We as a nation need to support that somehow and we have been...through taxes and lower tax rates for those who can barely survive on the wages businessowners deign to pay them. Without the workers, there would be no millionaires or businesses.

Jesus, I am changing to being an Independent very soon, but conversations like this drive home the point of why I could NEVER be a Democrat.

But you are basically having a cnversation with yourself, setting the tone and saying how you could never be...

Kinda like the Campaign McCain is running. There are no issues he has brought to the table that really matter or have any substance. All I said was that Obama is the right choice...and I was agreeing with you pretty much. I never said he had no faults or never said Republicans cannot reason. I even pointed to some who have. The McCain campaign and his decision making is in serious doubt. He is not the right choice for our country at this time. I would have loved it if he beat Bush in 2000 though....