The history of the Jews point to God existing. Jews exist.

[Chris OConnor]

Asana, are you Muslim?

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:Yes, there certainly is a way to explain it. You extend your fingers and tap on your keyboard in some sort of intelligent fashion so as to cause coherent sentences, paragraphs and concepts to appear in the form of pixels on your monitor. Then hit "Add Reply." I love you Chris! Edited by: Asana Bodhitharta at: 11/6/06 8:53 pm

[Chris OConnor]

Quote:There is really no way for me to explain that to you.Yes, there certainly is a way to explain it. You extend your fingers and tap on your keyboard in some sort of intelligent fashion so as to cause coherent sentences, paragraphs and concepts to appear in the form of pixels on your monitor. Then hit "Add Reply."

[Frank 013]

Quote:Now Frank says "God reacts" why does he keep saying what God does and doesn't do? He can't postulate these things and postulate that God doesn't exist.Actually I said your god reacts, maybe I should have said seems to react.But my statement was not restricted to the Christian god alone.Looking back to the very human Greek, Roman, Norman and Egyptian gods they were well defined physically and their general demeanor was also well described.At the time the bible was written angels, Satan and the Holy Spirit would have all fallen into the category of gods. Now, one is forced to ask why gods went from very human like beings to the nebulous powers they have become. Even the agents of the gods themselves have morphed. Angels were once considered powerful physical beings. They have now been transformed into formless invisible protectors.I believe that the better defined a god is, the easier it is to logically counter, especially in the light of science. Apollo for instance with his golden chariot in the sky is easily countered today one just needs to look at the sun with a telescope (please use the proper lenses) to see that it is not a horse drawn flying golden chariot. The better defined a god is, (weather we are using human characteristics or not) the more susceptible it is to logical defeat. For instance would a all loving, companionate being leave two thirds of its most loved creations to a eternity of suffering when it did not have to?I do not know what compassion means to you is but that is not my definition. Nor does it count as forgiving, loving, or even all powerful.Describing a god with the above human characteristics leaves it open to fallibility in the eyes of a critical thinker.Therefore a god's continued existence is determined by how well it can hide from the light of contradiction. Most of the human like gods failed this test long ago and the Christian god is now being exposed in much the same way.Later

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:Actually I said your god reacts, maybe I should have said seems to react.But my statement was not restricted to the Christian god alone.Even if you say "seems to react" you are stating you detect God in some way, shape or form. You cannot do that if you believe God doesn't exist. If God doesn't exist He can't seem to do anything.Quote:Looking back to the very human Greek, Roman, Norman and Egyptian gods they were well defined physically and their general demeanor was also well described.At the time the bible was written angels, Satan and the Holy Spirit would have all fallen into the category of gods. You are taking metaphoric descriptions and running wild with them. Also, Satan, Angels and the Holy Spirit did not fall into the category of gods.Quote:Now, one is forced to ask why gods went from very human like beings to the nebulous powers they have become. Once again here your view loses meaning as the top 3 religions have the same God and that God has remained constant in metaphoric explanation and at the same time has always been described as beyond comparison.Quote:Even the agents of the gods themselves have morphed. Angels were once considered powerful physical beings. They have now been transformed into formless invisible protectors.Angels were always considered spiritual beings that can take the form as a human.Quote:I believe that the better defined a god is, the easier it is to logically counter, especially in the light of science. God is beyond absolute definition, that is why He(HU) is called The Supreme Being.Quote:Apollo for instance with his golden chariot in the sky is easily countered today one just needs to look at the sun with a telescope (please use the proper lenses) to see that it is not a horse drawn flying golden chariot. The better defined a god is, (weather we are using human characteristics or not) the more susceptible it is to logical defeat. Just because you can not see a golden chariot doesn't mean that the sun itself doesn't move in it's own orbit, which it does.Quote:For instance would a all loving, companionate being leave two thirds of its most loved creations to a eternity of suffering when it did not have to?I do not know what compassion means to you is but that is not my definition. Nor does it count as forgiving, loving, or even all powerful.Should a Creator subject Himself to unproductive creations? If He created his creations to serve Him and each other and they are incapable of their purposed function should He allow them to cause unending mischief forever or should He protect the creations that are productive and capable of serving their purpose.Quote:Describing a god with the above human characteristics leaves it open to fallibility in the eyes of a critical thinker.Therefore a god's continued existence is determined by how well it can hide from the light of contradiction. Most of the human like gods failed this test long ago and the Christian god is now being exposed in much the same way.Someone who does not believe in God cannot think of God critically. The Christian God Is Allah and Allah is the best of planners.

[Frank 013]

Quote:Even if you say "seems to react" you are stating you detect God in some way, shape or form. You cannot do that if you believe God doesn't exist. If God doesn't exist He can't seem to do anything.Well you are apparently dense enough for me to have to spell it out as simply as possible.Humans over the last few thousand years have altered the description of their gods, from man like to nebulas. So from an outside observer it appears as though the definition of their god is also changing.Just as if people started depicting Santa clause as wearing a pink suit, god can also show change just as any fictional character can. And I can observe the changes within that confine. Quote:You are taking metaphoric descriptions and running wild with them. Also, Satan, Angels and the Holy Spirit did not fall into the category of gods.I am aware that you do not see them as such, but to common peoples of the time period and pagan cultures those beings were godlike.Quote:Once again here your view loses meaning as the top 3 religions have the same God and that God has remained constant in metaphoric explanation and at the same time has always been described as beyond comparison. That is according to whom, you? Most of the people you would lump into a single category would not agree with you. But I suppose you would say that that is irrelevant. Quote:Angels were always considered spiritual beings that can take the form as a human.So, what, the angels just don't appear as human anymore? Or maybe their hiding among normal people, heck maybe I am an angel trying to correct your faulty religious view?Quote:God is beyond absolute definition, that is why He(HU) is called The Supreme Being.Well isn't that convenient?But this sums up my entire point, thanks for helping. Early gods were not so vague or indescribable. Even the ancient Hebrews had a very clear picture of what their god was like emotionally, he was jealous and spiteful. Now he is peace loving and compassionate. Hey look a change!Heck just by describing a god with gender you are giving a description.Quote:Just because you can not see a golden chariot doesn't mean that the sun itself doesn't move in it's own orbit, which it does. Holy Shi... Moley!!!!!Our sun does not move in an orbit of the earth, it is in fact the earth that is moving in orbit of the sun. The sun is not pulled by a magic chariot across the sky because the sun does not move in relativity to the earth. Quote:Should a Creator subject Himself to unproductive creations? If He created his creations to serve Him and each other and they are incapable of their purposed function should He allow them to cause unending mischief forever or should He protect the creations that are productive and capable of serving their purpose.Well then the creator is not all powerful because he could not make a quality product. If a creation is faulty it is the creator who is a fault.Two thirds of a manufactured product ending up in the trash is a failure by any human standard and we accept the fact that we are fallible. Yet you will accept that an all powerful, all knowing, compassionate, loving, and forgiving being is capable of ruining 2/3rds of his beloved creations.Just a little direct irrefutable guidance on his part would go a long way, yet he refuses to do so, I wonder why? Quote:Someone who does not believe in God cannot think of God critically. Really, I can argue for hours over weather Darth Vader can kill Freddy Kruger, so your mythological god is no different. I can critically examine the elements and definitions of this described character and poke wide holes in the logic of his existence because of the contradictory elements of said description. Quote:The Christian God Is Allah and Allah is the best of planners.And that plan is what? Let the bulk of his creations fall into eternal suffering, destroy the earth and then? Paradise? Yea!!! Well then why wait, what could possibly be keeping you from that eternal reward of paradise? I, mean heck if you wait to long you might piss off that psychotic god of yours? Later

[Federika22]

Quote:If God allows his creation to become Godly by choice then they have behaved in a way pleasing to God and takes on His nature it is this nature that causes salvation. If it is up to your god to ALLOW his creation to become godly or not, it doesn't sound like there is a lot of personal choice involved. Which is it? God's will or human's will? (And, maybe you would try reading your posts out loud to yourself before posting? That quoted sentence was really hard to follow).Quote:A defective nature will cause severe punishmentAgain, as has been said before, if your god is the creator, then he is the creator of the defective nature too. He is either stupid or he is a sadist. Here's something I have also been wondering: How about the 3 year old girl in the Congo, who was gangraped and left to die? Now she is 5 and crippled; she can't speak about what happened to her; she can't hold her bowels; she needs surgery to repair her torn tissues but there are not enough doctors, not to mention one to help her psychologically... Do you believe that a loving "creator" would put an innocent child into this life? And then, if she had died during her excruciating and terrifiying ordeal denying the existence of a god that "blessed" her with that life, would she be condemned to an eternity of torture to boot? This is a very common story by the way. Edited by: Federika22 at: 11/7/06 4:47 am

[Asana Bodhitharta]

First of all The sun circles the Milky Way at a speed of about 486,000 miles per hour. Second, there is no logical reason for God to be concerned about creations that choose to be unproductive. If God allows his creation to become Godly by choice then they have behaved in a way pleasing to God and takes on His nature it is this nature that causes salvation. A defective nature will cause severe punishment. Consider what would happen if we allowed our children to do whatever they wanted from birth. their life would be a living hell. Imagine when you are resurrected and you stay stuck in your state of disbelief and because you claim there is no God you are forced to deal with the wasteland environment that you are placed in driven their by demons. Who will be able to save you when you believe in nothing.Third, I would never waste time arguing over fictitious characters as that is a little crazy and unproductive seeing as they are not real.

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:If it is up to your god to ALLOW his creation to become godly or not, it doesn't sound like there is a lot of personal choice involved. Which is it? Of course you have a personal choice. You are responsible for what you believe and for what you do.

[Federika22]

Did you read my other questions?