How did you stop believing?

[geo]

It felt freeing to me as well, though I don't think I ever had much in the way of faith to begin with. When I was younger I simply didn't put much thought into the question of god at all. However, when I did start thinking about it, and when I accepted the possibility that god doesn't exist, it felt immensely emancipating. I think because it was a glimpse into something truthful, a clear look at humans and our place in the natural world. Looking back, I believe that reading some of Stephen Jay Gould's books about evolution and Sagan's A Demon-Haunted World put me in a frame of mind where I was willing to at least look at the question.

[geo]

yamaf350 said:

For so many people, that loss of faith is incredibly painful and tragic. For me, and many I've known, it's been liberating, marvelous. Which has it been for all of you?

You say that you found comfort and joy in your faith and yet it has been liberating and marvelous to have lost it?

I can only say that I feel diminished at the loss of mine. I don't think it matters that I feel diminished, in the grander scheme of things.

But something, some light, in me has gone out. I am now an ineffectual person. I have lost something crucial. Yet, I am glad that I am aware of this.

Penelope, you certainly are a very interesting person and in no sense are you ineffectual. I don't know if it will work for you, but for me learning about evolution gives me a sense of wonder and joy that many folks probably find with religion. Stephen Jay Gould's books are wonderful and he doesn't tackle religious questions at all because, in his mind, science and religion occupy "non-overlapping" realms. It's hard to explain, but evolution explains who we are and our place in the world much better than religion anyway. Understanding this process, even if just a little, makes me feel part of the natural world.

[Penelope]

Geo wrote:

It's hard to explain, but evolution explains who we are and our place in the world much better than religion anyway. Understanding this process, even if just a little, makes me feel part of the natural world.
_________________

I do feel part of the natural world. But I feel that we human beings are more than the sum of our parts.

I love people. It is not just selfish with me.

I keep reading books about evolution. And OK, I believe it. But I truely feel that we, self-aware, human beings, have another dimension.....

And that is what Quantum Physics is about.....

What am I searching for? I only know, that I can't go back.... and you don't know what you've got until you loose it.

I have lost something......but, my faith is strong enough to believe that I have lost it for a reason.....

and honestly, I'm not a complete basket case....

[Penelope]

Geo wrote:

It's hard to explain, but evolution explains who we are

Of course it does......but it doesn't bloody well explain...why???

And, I know, maybe there is no 'why'. It's a cussed bee under the bonnet though.

[oblivion]

Frank!
Great "seeing" you around again. We missed you!

[Robert Tulip]

I am a complete person... without faith.

Hello again Frank. In fact, I was thinking of you in relation to this thread before you posted, in terms of our previous discussions on this topic.

I have never been one to simply believe without evidence. However, until our conversation here a few years ago about the Jesus Myth Theory, including your reading of the work of Earl Doherty in demolishing literal apologies, I had assumed that the Gospel story was roughly accurate as history. Your skeptical comments about the non-historicity of the Bible helped me to see just how fictional the good book really is. So thank you again for helping me to stop believing.

e.g.

Why, despite the lack of evidence, do the vast majority of people believe that Jesus was a historical person? Is it purely a faith-based belief? Is it lack of knowledge of the topic? I truly do not get it. For every other figure in history we demand evidence of their life before we accept them as more than myth; yet Jesus seems to have gotten a free pass in this regard... why?Historians did not assume that the Roman Pilate was a historical person because he was mentioned in the bible or because he was said to have lived around the time of other historically established people, but because historians discovered other historical evidence that confirmed his existence. Yet most people (including some historians) believe that Jesus existed as a real person despite their total failure to locate him in history outside of biblical writing, all of which is dated to well after the time Jesus was said to have died which makes the material completely unreliable. These people completely ignore the fact that there is not a single piece of credible evidence to support a historical Jesus. And that there is convincing evidence that suggests that the Jesus story was a complete fabrication... again Why?Does faith really distort a person's reasoning so much that even normally required criteria could be tossed aside in favor of the faith belief?It seems that in this case it does? I guess that is why faith is often referred to as blind.Later Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a wellpreserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out,shouting..."Holy Crap...what a ride!"

[johnson1010]

welcome back frank!

A couple times these last few months i would read something and think...

"where's frank? He needs to see this."

[Frank 013]

Thanks everyone... I am glad to be home and its nice to know that I had a positive influance here in the past!!!

Later

[geo]

I do feel part of the natural world. But I feel that we human beings are more than the sum of our parts.

Nah, we're just monkeys with guns.

And that is what Quantum Physics is about.....

I can't wrap my head around that very well either. Maybe I'll read Stephen Hawking's latest book.

What am I searching for? I only know, that I can't go back.... and you don't know what you've got until you loose it.

I have lost something......but, my faith is strong enough to believe that I have lost it for a reason.....

and honestly, I'm not a complete basket case....

I'm reminded of that Moody Blues song, You Can Never Go Home.

I don't know what I'm searching for
I never have opened the door,
Tomorrow might find me at last,
Turning my back on the past,
But, time will tell, of stars that fell,
A million years ago.
Memories can never take you back, home, sweet home.
You can never go home anymore.

[Penelope]

Moody Blues - Liverpool Group?? Right?

Joni Mitchell - all American Gal....says it for me!

And the Seasons they go round and round
And the Painted Ponies go up and down
We're captive on the carousel of time
We can't return, we can only look behind
From where we came
And go round and round and round
In the circle game.

I'm not complaining, mind you.
It's better getting old, than the alternative,
Being Dead....