The Hot 100

[DWill]

THANKS DWill, and all, for this thread and for the introduction to some wonders I'd not met before. It was much more interesting (and instructive) doing this with others. I will miss it; this thread has been a civil and calm oasis at BT. I hope to find others that are so refreshing.

You're welcome, Dawn. Yes, as one who participates in the storm and fury of those other forums, I appreciate the oasis quality as well. I try to keep my Jekyll and Hyde-ish nature at bay in the poetry forum. The closest we got to a rancorous debate was I think Robert and Penelope's recent dust-up over "Dover Beach." But even that seemed to be a bit playful.

[Saffron]

It often isn't clear to me just what modern poems are trying to do. The reason probably has to do with the direction of modern poetry toward the private and personal, away from general truth. The general truths have all been written about, so what choice did poets have? But that's still what I value most in poetry, the great generalities it may expose.

I think that modern poetry, when it is sucessful, also hits into general truths. I think at some level all poetry is making some statment about the human condition; even if it is only to say see what a fine observation I have made or what a pretty word picture I have created. I also have difficutly with poetry that is so private that there is no way in. Poetry, no, all art, is about connecting and therefore in order to be sucessful it must go beyond the personal.

Verse form is another aspect that increases my enjoyment of poetry. I like the boundaries that different verse forms give, which is often done through end-rhymes. Rhymes seem to give poetry a gnomic or spell-like quality that I enjoy. Frost said that writing free-verse is like playing tennis without a net. He wasn't knocking free-verse; he was just saying how difficult it is to write without meter and rhyme to guide you. That goes for the reader, too; the meter and rhyme placing the poem within a perimeter.

I can't really add to what you have said regarding poetic form, other than to say me too.

[Penelope]

Saffron wrote:

I am planning on picking up Garrison Keillor's Good Poems.

We used to listen faithfully to Garrison Keillor reading 'Lake Woebegon Days' on the Radio here....wonderful. But honestly, I don't care what we read, so long as we continue to associate with one another. I use Palgrave's Golden Treasury of Songs and Lyrics....or is that just too old hat? There is another excellent Victorian anthology called 'Parlour Poetry'.

DWill wrote:

The closest we got to a rancorous debate was I think Robert and Penelope's recent dust-up over "Dover Beach." But even that seemed to be a bit playful.

I like having a set-to with Robert Tulip, I count it a privilidge....he never takes offence and I take his Aussie example on board.

I'm not saying that I don't get mad, mind-you.

Oh do let's do another one, and then another one.

I don't know what I like yet....because I like the old romantics and I like T S Elliot....I think I like poems about feelings, rather than observational ones. But, I don't know, really, it depends on my mood. I love John Betjeman....Summoned by Bells, is a good one, but not long enough for us.

[DWill]

Despite what I said about liking the older stuff, one very obvious need is for an updated Top 500, or an anthology that would cut out poems previous to, say, 1950. There were only a very few post-1950 poems in Harmon's 500. I don't know whether a Harmon approach could work for modern poetry, though, simply because there might not be many poetry anthologies put out anymore. Harmon's list was arrived at by calculating how many times a particular poem was anthologized. Maybe saffron or someone else has an idea about this. Another problem with a modern poetry Top 500 (or 100) is that poetry is now less geared toward a general reader and more toward a specialized or academic reader. It's worth thinking about, though.

[Robert Tulip]

I like vivid imagery; especially that hits the senses. No esoteric poetry for me, thank you.

Some of the most vivid poems are the most esoteric - Kubla Khan, The Second Coming, Tyger Tyger, Prufrock

[Penelope]

I've just been given Benjamin Zephaniah's 'Talking Turkeys' in lieu of an Easter Egg. It is very lively stuff and I love it, but not the stuff of serious discussion.

There is the Oxford University Press - Anthology of American Poetry:

http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/s ... EyMjcxOA==

[Robert Tulip]

I like having a set-to with Robert Tulip, I count it a privilidge....

Me too, Penelope, especially about spelling.

I still think that Dover Beach contains a subtle reflection of the imperial idea of the white man's burden, with Dover as the point of connection between Britain and the world. The idea that connections across the Atlantic and North Sea were equivalent in Arnold's day is risible, or maybe that should be runcible.

[Penelope]

Robert wrote:

The idea that connections across the Atlantic and North Sea were equivalent in Arnold's day is risible, or maybe that should be runcible.

Indubitably!!!

Except that the Vikings invaded over one sea, and the Spanish attempted it, over the other.

But, yes, the shortest distance across to the Continent is via Dover, so it is significant in that respect. I suppose a grey and crowded little island which insists on naming itself 'Great Britain' should expect to be lampooned, when it isn't so great anymore.

The thing is Robert, since Tony Blaire's special friendship with George Bush, we seem to be Americanised. Our newspapers contain loads of news about what is happening in America, but very little indeed about what is happening in Europe. There are those of us over here, who insist that we are Europeans - and not another American State......We are in the minority, I fear, so tend to be a bit prickly.

[lady of shallot]

O.K. I have no idea if this is the proper place to post this or not but maybe DWILL can tell me. This is the poem I found on a piece of art work at the senior college (man I hate being a senior but what else at age 76?) I don't know if it was written by the creator of the art or she borrowed someone else's poem. Anyway I like it although it would be more suited for Halloween than Easter (or would it?)

Bones:

Open my grave
take out my old white bones
with your calloused hands

Lay them out on the grass
hang them in the lilac tree
so the soft sweet smell
crawls
through my nose,
around
my empty skull
into
my porous legs

Wave my arms around
flap my hands
swing my ankles like a garden gate

Make them all dance and sing
let them feel the cool air
fluff them up with laughter,

Flip them over like pancakes in a skillet,
shake them out like pillows.
send them around on a carnival ride.

Throw sunshine on t hem everyone.

And when they've had enough

Rest them gently back in their bed,
pull up the sheet of soil,
and bid them well,
until the next time they call to you.

[froglipz]

I would definitely like to follow along with that Saffron, I already feel a little bit bereft.