Jesus Christ Sun God or Christ Aquarius? Intellectual effort vs. spiritual revelation

[Robert Tulip]

While this is somewhat pointless, I see sonoman has yet again launched into yet another irrelevant, fallacious panegyric to himself, followed by more repetition that does not give his views any more weight. Nonetheless I will still try to respond (in a next post) to sonoman's latest reverential points about the planet Saturn.

The atheist tiny minority viewpoint that oppose the majority of human beings can never tell itself it is the "sane" way for humans to be. That atheists cannot see themselves as others see them is one of the major reasons atheists do not learn facts about the human mind.

Oh the irony. The fact that many people have believed things that are untrue is not evidence that those things are true.

no answers ever given to how "Nature", random selection of evolutionary traits, forms a human brain capable of receiving spiritual stimulation that you atheists say doesn't exist.

The fact that sonoman is incredulous about how religious imagination is explained by psychology does not invalidate that explanation. This is actually well covered in an excellent chapter on religion in our current non fiction book, The World Until Yesterday by Jared Diamond.

still without answers to my questions that I posted and still wait for direct answers

The fact that sonoman deals in generalities rather than specifics about questions he says he has raised, and buries these generalities within long obscure paragraphs, makes any productive exchange difficult.

People have offered to go through his assertions systematically, but we may die wondering.

[ant]

The fact that many people have believed things that are untrue is not evidence that those things are true.

It is fallacious to believe that because you've explained the origin of something, that you've also explained the "something" away.

[Interbane]

I will answer any question posed to me. But I will not sort through a 5000 word essay to filter out the questions.

Sonoman, giving links to websites does not mean the information at the other end of that link is incorrect, or inapplicable. What is listed there are indeed my own thoughts, just as the content of your beliefs are your own thoughts. But the majority of the content within your beliefs was learned somewhere, wasn't it? Truth be told, I rather read any links you provide. Your posts are indigestible. Look at how long they are. Count the number of run-on sentences. Be straight and to the point, and use bullets for your questions, or separate them by spaces.

It is fallacious to believe that because you've explained the origin of something, that you've also explained the "something" away.

Unless the origin is that the belief was fabricated by other men. I consider Sonoman's beliefs to be the same as a Harry Potter fan. He writes lengthy posts about how different plot points tie together, and never once touches upon how such a story is true. Much of what he posts is true in the context of the story. But in the end it's irrelevant, because the story is the fabrication of another person. I don't care to discuss the intricacies of Harry Potter, and I don't care to discuss the intricacies of Christ Aquarius. Is King's Cross railway station a real place? Yes. Do stars in the sky resemble objects? Yes. Does that mean the stories fabricated around either of these things is true? No. Sonoman never discusses this.

[sonoman]

But you're flat out lying when you compare Celestial Torah Christianity to Harry Potter and you know it, just do it to continue your nine-year old mean little boy with a forum stick to bash theists with. Both you and Chris should recuse yourselves from any discussion with theists because you're both so bigoted that you waste all our times with diversion of theological discussion into character assassination of theists and theism.

Harry Potter is a work of fiction. Celestial Torah Christianity is non-fiction and creates exactly ZERO fictional characters or story and again, you know this because you accept astrological beliefs and meanings when atheist mythicists use the same astrological language as I do, the language we didn't invent but has developed historically with real tangible archeological evidence showing this. Repeat: I didn't invent Celestial Torah Christianity astrological facts or meanings. They are in the historical records of Near Eastern religions. So stop the slander, Interbane. This isn't the schoolyard where you and your gang of atheists can bully the theist and get away with it without exposing yourselves as intellectual frauds.

I defeated you atheists because none of you can answer my questions and now you finally admit you won't even try giving the utterly lame excuse that I post too many words for you to comprehend while this is a BOOK discussion forum where Books are discussed, like mine, with many thousands of words to read and discuss like adults, not children pretending to be adults.

[Interbane]

But you're flat out lying when you compare Celestial Torah Christianity to Harry Potter and you know it

And I know it.

It's an honest parallel, no lies involved. There is as much evidence for Harry Potter as there is for your Torah Christ. Both rely on stories of others. The historical records of Near Eastern religions included. People tell stories... that much we know. Figuring out whether or not the stories are true. That takes a great deal more effort.

Where you continually fail is showing that these stories are true. You run amok with associations between them all, but offer no support for their truthfulness. Because you have no idea what constitutes support; your "support" is a scaffolding of fallacies. Again, that's not a lie, and it's not slander. It's the truth, as I'd shown in one of my previous posts.

I defeated you atheists because none of you can answer my questions and now you finally admit you won't even try giving the utterly lame excuse that I post too many words for you to comprehend

Don't flatter yourself. It's not a lack of comprehension, it's a lack of interest. I care as much about the intricacies of CTC as I do about the intricacies of Harry Potter. Start from the bottom Stephen. What do you have that would make us consider it true? Connections within the belief system come afterwards.

[Robert Tulip]

I promised to reply to Sonoman's post about Saturn and Torah so I will. Sonoman uses the slightly lazy method of inserting his own comments in bold into quotes from others. This is easy to follow for those familiar with the argument, but can be confusing.

I use the word "Torah" to describe this ancient Christ astrological "Way" which is the meaning of "torah", as a organized system of beliefs, far from any "word salad".

Okay, so it is like saying Torah means Tao. That is conceivable, except that it is some distance from the conventional meaning of Torah as the first five books of the Bible, which depart markedly from the Taoist philosophy of the unseen way.

Even Judaism uses the term "Celestial Torah" although they have lost the astrological meaning of it as well as remembrance from the Egyptian source they developed the idea from.

These are ideas that can be explored factually, without overblown paranoid hysteria. Where you differ from Acharya is that she also starts from a speculative vision about a hidden truth in ancient religion, but she then backs up her vision with sound research and reasoned argument, whereas you say something like 'trust me I am a prophet of God'.

As for why the Age of Aquarius is solar, what do you mean "solar".

It is simple astronomy, without any astrology. The Age of Aquarius is defined as the period when the March Equinox point is in the constellation Aquarius. The March equinox occurs when the sun is observed to cross the equator from south to north, so the Age concept is purely solar.

the Sun never ruled the Sign of Aquarius

Sonoman, you seem to not have a good grasp of the astronomy. Astrological planetary rulership is not relevant to defining zodiac ages.

the Jewish top gods which were Saturn, EL, the Ruler of Aquarius, and Yahweh, who is coupled as Son to EL in the Jewish religion which Christianity shares.

I don't think you are right that Yahweh is seen as the son of El. This is a speculative imaginative reconstruction on your part.

...Jesus Christ... shares with other major Jewish figures, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Jonah, John the Baptist, Water God characteristics, i.e. Aquarian ones and how these, and not sun god worship ones define Christ as Christ Aquarius.

I am happy to agree that the myth of Christ has Aquarian themes. However, it is deeply confusing for you to assert that this means the myth of Christ does not have solar themes, since the identification of Christ as a Sun God is clear and strong, especially through the natural allegories of Christmas and Easter.

I'm ganged up on

Far from it. You present a ludicrous pharmalucent vision and then become indignant when people question it. You should just ratchet down the defensiveness about ten notches. If what you said made any sense you would not attack people for mocking you but would calmly explain why they are wrong.

[sonoman]

I promised to reply to Sonoman's post about Saturn and Torah so I will. Sonoman uses the slightly lazy method of inserting his own comments in bold into quotes from others. This is easy to follow for those familiar with the argument, but can be confusing.

When will I read a response from you atheists that doesn't include slander. I mean talk about nit-picking..?

I use the word "Torah" to describe this ancient Christ astrological "Way" which is the meaning of "torah", as a organized system of beliefs, far from any "word salad".

Okay, so it is like saying Torah means Tao. That is conceivable, except that it is some distance from the conventional meaning of Torah as the first five books of the Bible, which depart markedly from the Taoist philosophy of the unseen way.

I am Jewish. The Jewish Torah is a corruption of the Egyptian Taurowet astrologically based theology. I am correcting it as a Jewish Christian prophesy bearer.

Even Judaism uses the term "Celestial Torah" although they have lost the astrological meaning of it as well as remembrance from the Egyptian source they developed the idea from.

These are ideas that can be explored factually, without overblown paranoid hysteria.

More slander. You obviously give Acharya a pass at her constant paranoia of Christian critics sprinkled profusely in her writings as they are also in her idolized mentor's works, Barbara Walker who seems to blame men for everything wrong with the world.

Where you differ from Acharya is that she also starts from a speculative vision about a hidden truth in ancient religion, but she then backs up her vision with sound research and reasoned argument, whereas you say something like 'trust me I am a prophet of God'.

More slander as I do provide reasoned argument, the displaying of the historical record of evolving humanitarian conception in the Sign of Aquarius being used in Near Eastern religions for over 4000 years to impart the baptismal sanctification Living Waters to the appropriate ruler who first followed the Good gods, then the Good God.

As for why the Age of Aquarius is solar, what do you mean "solar".

It is simple astronomy, without any astrology. The Age of Aquarius is defined as the period when the March Equinox point is in the constellation Aquarius. The March equinox occurs when the sun is observed to cross the equator from south to north, so the Age concept is purely solar.

Ok, I never thought otherwise. I just didn't know what you were referring to.

the Sun never ruled the Sign of Aquarius

Sonoman, you seem to not have a good grasp of the astronomy. Astrological planetary rulership is not relevant to defining zodiac ages.

Next time, Robert, be more clear what you are asking and stop with these needless astrology lessons. I know perfectly well astrological rulership doesn't define zodiac ages. You seem to need to put me down wherever you think you can manufacture a reason. Could it be jealousy that I arrived spiritually at the Christ Aquarian identification of Jesus instead of your falling for the atheist sun god one? But at least you respond personally while Acharya, the intellectual coward in my opinion, is too afraid to post her views lest she too have her lack of spiritual understanding of the symbols of the religious peoples whose works she exploits for fame and gain be exposed as incomplete and mistaken.

the Jewish top gods which were Saturn, EL, the Ruler of Aquarius, and Yahweh, who is coupled as Son to EL in the Jewish religion which Christianity shares.

I don't think you are right that Yahweh is seen as the son of El. This is a speculative imaginative reconstruction on your part.

Nope. You don't know your Jewish texts: Read Deuteronomy 32 in the Hebrew original and see where EL assigns Yahweh the people of Israel. Then read Prof. Margaret Barker's The Great Angel book that traces ancient Hebrew Yahweh as EL' great angel, i.e., the role of Jesus Christ later on as another in effect great angel which is why there's always confusion between Michael and Jesus Christ.

...Jesus Christ... shares with other major Jewish figures, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Jonah, John the Baptist, Water God characteristics, i.e. Aquarian ones and how these, and not sun god worship ones define Christ as Christ Aquarius.

I am happy to agree that the myth of Christ has Aquarian themes. However, it is deeply confusing for you to assert that this means the myth of Christ does not have solar themes, since the identification of Christ as a Sun God is clear and strong, especially through the natural allegories of Christmas and Easter.

Judaism and Christianity established originally by Jews is characterized by taking pagan deities and pagan religious ideas and "Judaizing" them. Ancient top gods of others are made into "Hebrews" to serve Hebrew goals, like Abraham and Sarah originally Brahma and Sarasvati with Hagar being derived from Ghaggar in the Vedic original. You might ask where Jews would learn about Hindu Brahministic ideas being quite far away from India. Well, in the time period Jews were composing their Bible there existed a thriving incense and spice trade between the Near East and India going through the Sabean kingdom in Yemen. Hindu merchants, of the Brahmin caste of course, were in Yemen and the cultural contact between Sabeans is recorded in the David stories of the Queen of Sheba, that name being actually Shiva with Sheba as the Seventh eternal kingdom of Shiva. The seventh day "Sabbath" name is also derived from this Seven religious meaning in Hebrew. All connections between Saturn and the Jewish religion which Christianity is based on. As Judaism with Saturn worship had no ancient spiritual tradition of resurrection of the soul like the ancient sun god religions had, Christianity, being born in Egypt, adopted their sun god theology to Judaize it making resurrection of the soul "captured" for Jewish Christianity. But captured sun gods do not a Jewish Messiah make so we are back to the original Saturn-Aquarius based Messiah theological relationship that defines Judaism's expectations and Jewish Christianity's incarnation.

I'm ganged up on

Far from it. You present a ludicrous pharmalucent vision and then become indignant when people question it. You should just ratchet down the defensiveness about ten notches. If what you said made any sense you would not attack people for mocking you but would calmly explain why they are wrong.

I am dealing solidly with atheists here who use slander and name-calling to lambaste me with most every single post to me. Acharya uses censorship to "answer" my criticisms of her mistaken conclusions. I should lie down and take this treatment? When you stop your slander, e.g. your last sentences showing no comprehension of that many major religious visionaries get that way through altered states of consciousness. What do you think spending 40 days in the wilderness without food or water would do to your consciousness in the story of Jesus' first recorded spiritual encounter. Oh, I know, you can't get past the "40" so the other spiritual information doesn't register. Same problem you and atheists have with all religious ideas you read about but have no personal experience in.
When I am treated like a human being and not a target for constant attack I will respond in kind. But here I am in hostile territory where enemies of spiritual consciousness are at war with spiritually aware people and have no qualms at all about using dirty tricks to "win" their battles. But you know what? Because I know God is with me I can toss off your insults with ease because they are so easily defeated by just ordinary standards of intelligent reasoning that don't need name-calling and slander or censorship to defend my beliefs.