• In total there are 17 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 17 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 880 on Fri Jun 28, 2024 11:45 am

First Cause

Engage in conversations about worldwide religions, cults, philosophy, atheism, freethought, critical thinking, and skepticism in this forum.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
geo

2C - MOD & GOLD
pets endangered by possible book avalanche
Posts: 4780
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:24 am
15
Location: NC
Has thanked: 2200 times
Been thanked: 2201 times
United States of America

Re: First Cause

Unread post

bionov wrote:Just so you don’t think I’m only using Judeo-Christian theology, let’s look at how a great Muslim thinker argued for the existence of a Creator. Let me first quote from the Preface of “Tradition of Mufaddal”.
All Praise is due to He Who Created, without Himself having been created.”
Here is a quote from a conversation Mufaddal had with Imam Sadiq.
[ Mufaddal said to Imam Sadiq: "Master, some men imagine that the order and precision we see in the world are the work of nature."
The Imam responded: "Ask them whether nature performs all its precisely calculated functions in accordance with knowledge, thought and power of its own. If they say that nature possesses knowledge and power, what is there to prevent them from affirming the eternal divine essence and confessing the existence of that supreme principle? If, on the other hand, they say that nature performs its tasks regularly and correctly without knowledge and will, then it follows that these wise functions and precise, well calculated laws are the work of an all-knowing and wise creator. That which they call nature is, in fact, a law and a custom appointed by the hand of divine power to rule over creation."
]
It's interesting to see how our idea of God has changed throughout history. From animism to polytheism to monotheism (although modern Christianity still retains its polytheistic roots with the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost, and Mother Mary, all deities or minor deities). As human civilizations have changed so has our concept of God. And even now, we have thousands of religions, all with different notions of God and how we should worship him. For example, many religions baptize infants while others believe that only adults should be baptized. These obviously are human customs passed down for many generations. A ritual cleansing by water is something practiced by early humans, but that cleansing means something very different now then it did then.

Humans seem to have evolved a sense of something greater than us. Even as children, we naturally assume that rocks, rivers and birds have been created for a specific purpose. And we naturally come to believe the mind is separate from the body. Each cultures puts its own anthropomorphic stamp on this mystical entity, giving it the name of God and worshipping it in the way that is prevalent in that culture. There is no one true religion. There'ss only subjective belief, but it's based on our common evolutionary heritage.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 88208.html
-Geo
Question everything
User avatar
bionov
Agrees that Reading is Fundamental
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:14 pm
11
Location: Sierra Foothills, CA
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 25 times
Contact:

Re: First Cause

Unread post

Here’s a quote from Pope John Paul II given at a 1981 Vatican conference on cosmology.
‘Every scientific hypothesis about the origin of the world, such as the one that says that there is a basic atom from which the whole of the physical universe is derived, leaves unanswered the problem concerning the beginning of the universe. By itself science cannot resolve such a question….’ The pope then quoted Pope Pius XII as saying, ‘We would wait in vain for an answer from the natural sciences which declare, on the contrary, that they honestly find themselves faced with an insoluble enigma.’
P.S. By the way, Steven Hawking misquoted the Pope in his book, “A Brief History of Time” as stating; ‘it was all right to study the evolution of the universe after the Big Bang, but we should not inquire into the Big Bang itself because that was the moment of Creation and therefore the work of God.’
User avatar
johnson1010
Tenured Professor
Posts: 3564
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:35 pm
15
Location: Michigan
Has thanked: 1280 times
Been thanked: 1128 times

Re: First Cause

Unread post

scientists have not answered the question.

But if anything has any chance of ever doing it, it's doing research on the real world, rather than making things up.

Cannot is a rebuff to further investigation. Have not is an invitation to try.
In the absence of God, I found Man.
-Guillermo Del Torro

Are you pushing your own short comings on us and safely hating them from a distance?

Is this the virtue of faith? To never change your mind: especially when you should?

Young Earth Creationists take offense at the idea that we have a common heritage with other animals. Why is being the descendant of a mud golem any better?
Post Reply

Return to “Religion & Philosophy”