Believing in...something.

[sauconyride]

I'll be honest, I think believing in something besides ourselves is kind of...fulfilling. The only hard part of that is finding something to believe in...

There are so many different beliefs, so many different Gods, so many different religions and so many people who think they are right. How do you find the right religion for you? How did you come across what you believe in?

I've been brought up Catholic, going to church every Sunday until I came to college but woken up every Sunday when I come home for breaks to go right back to church. Thanks, Dad.

Again...I'll be honest, I like the idea of being active in religion...like going to church every Sunday. But I have a hard time believing in the Catholic Church, not that I disrespect those who do.

So it comes down to how do you worship an unknown religion...and how do you make that religion known to you...?

Share your religion revelations!

[johnson1010]

Your desire to be a part of something, to contribute to a goal, a larger vision, seems to be an intrinsic part of what it is to be human.

That doesn't necessarily mean you have to believe in supernatural fables, though. If you find your own motivations insufficient to grant a meaning to your life, you could always find somebody else who you think is meaningfully contributing to life. Whether that be research in green energies, undoubtedly a necessary, essential and world-changing innovation, when it finally matures, whether that be a search for a cure to various diseases, or innovation of grains, or the cleaning of fresh water to ensure a healthier life for literally billions across the planet, that is all up to you. And it always has been.

Any claim to a greater authority must necessarily come from a fellow human. Do you really think they have a greater insight than you? Realize they lose their keys, stub their toes and take their morning constitutional, just like you. They have no authoritative, monopolistic grip on the TRUTH. They make their truths daily, just like you, and they have no devine right to dictate to you what it is you should believe.

In the end you will find your own path, which is the destiny of all humans. Whether you attach yourself, your creative energies, your physical and mental contributions to an undeniably necessary and benefitial endeavor like those i listed above, or if you submerge those same propensities of contribution to a wild goose chase involving magical entities is entirely up to you.

I encourage you to face the future and wrestle your superstitions to the side. See that you do have a lot to offer, and that there are many causes in the world which are in desperate need of you.

You can make a difference, and if that doesn't qualify as a "greater purpose" then i'm not sure what would.

[Kevin]

Share your religion revelations!

Alright, I will!!!

1. statement of fact: sentient beings feel pain and experience happiness. (I'm being circuitous here by defining [to myself] sentient as a being who has the ability to feel pain and/or experience happiness regardless of whatever other definitions there may be.)

2. statement of belief: All motivations stem from the desire to experience pleasure and/or avoid pain. Of course, what may be a painful experience to one may be a pleasurable experience to another... but regardless of the freaks, it's the same principle at work.

3. statement of belief: there can be no omnipotent loving god. Too much gets in the way of the seeking of happiness and the avoidance of pain to allow for it to be the case. 3a. Who really cares about a creating entity that is something other than omnipotent and loving? So while I don't dismiss the existance of a creating force I believe it's irrelevant.

4. statement of application: If a being suffers there can be no justification for refusing to take that suffering into consideration. The reasoning behind this is, on the one hand, the underlying Bhuddist-like belief that all life is connected and therefore to exploit a sentient being means that you would be exploiting yourself... and on the other the underlying notion of ethics which requires one to look to a larger community to determine correct actions.

Thank you for asking. I think it's a good question!

[Preposterous]

@Kevin quote
"2. statement of belief: All motivations stem from the desire to experience pleasure and/or avoid pain. Of course, what may be a painful experience to one may be a pleasurable experience to another... but regardless of the freaks, it's the same principle at work."

Work is pain. Oxycontin is pleasure. Even if you consider long term thinking there is some issues with this theory. We are all on a journey and wish to find our path, motivated by this is being beyond seeking pleasure.

Church is great, just not much of what is being said there. I like religion that lets you leave it and move on. Philosophers of comparative religion were/are a good place to start for me.

http://www.youtube.com/user/0namelessvo ... 0D18C8FD7D

[stahrwe]

2. statement of belief: All motivations stem from the desire to experience pleasure and/or avoid pain. Of course, what may be a painful experience to one may be a pleasurable experience to another... but regardless of the freaks, it's the same principle at work.

Wrong, that does not account for the person who rushes into a burning building to save a stranger, or the soldier who covers a handgranade with his body to shield the blast, or ...

[Kevin]

I won't step on your belief if you don't step on mine! bah! OK then, tell me why someone would rush into a burning building to save a stranger! It must be pretty painful for this guy to do otherwise. I bet Dostoyevsky or Hugo could have written a quite large book about the self-incrimination this unfortunate individual would suffer through. No, it's all about pleasure and pain! EDIT: and oxycontin!

[Preposterous]

Someone who recognizes that true self interest is not different from identifying with the suffering of another innocent person.

[Kevin]

Someone who recognizes that true self interest is not different from identifying with the suffering of another innocent person.

OK. I agree. (and, welcome btw) But I will not be tripped up with this rescuing a stranger business! A person who recognizes that true self interest is not different from identifying with the suffering of another innocent person is someone who would find more pain/less pleasure in not sacrificing himself than he would in sacrificing himself. The point that I think stahrwe misses, and you get, is that self-interest, enlightened self-interest anyway, or pleasure, isn't a thing to be equated with unworthy motivation. It's not wrong to act out of pleasure. What's wrong is to find pleasure in unworthy acts! So while a person who finds pleasure in helping the unfortunate - in whatever form unfortunate takes is acting out of the same motivation as does the bully who would beat up and rob a stranger if given half a chance - the seaking of pleasure and/or the avoidance of pain - what makes the first act praiseworthy and the second despicable is the nature of what holds attraction to these individuals. John Lennon said, "Whatever Gets You Through the Night, 'salright" but he surely didn't mean that to be a defense for every murderer, rapist, and thief. No, it matters what we are attracted to. This is where Right and Wrong come into play. somebody said (Gandhi I believe) that it doesn't matter so much what we do in moments of crisis as it does what we do in the moments when we are not in crisis (for all I know it may have been john Lennon who said this too) and I think it's true - it's not the moment that that fireman rushes in to save the stranger that matters but all the moments that led up to that act. this is where he became attracted to self-sacrifice.

So are you buying this?

[Preposterous]

Hey Kevin, thanks for the welcome and the discussion. So...I seriously want to toss out the whole pleasure pain thing. Who is the master of this theory...skinner? I think the dichotomy breaks down when we analyze ourselves. You make an interesting point about unworthy acts and motivations...but a lot of those are conditioned by authorities and peer groups. Which is to say we really don't know why we are doing them. Caring for your peers and identifying with them also subjects you to their values. Depending on the social environment your actions will be conditioned very differently. But we all have freewill if we choose it, that is a fact. The last quote (gandhi) is very wise because as he also said "be the change you want to see" there is only one continual process. Science likes to isolate cause and effect but the boundaries are always phony. Something always leads to the cause and there is no beginning...its all one process. So the the ends never justify the means. Living in this manner for civilized adults is fairly rare these days I think, but it is natural to children until sensitivity is conditioned out of them, IMO. If talking about spiritual matters, it is this that must be reclaimed.

[Dawn]

I'll be honest, I think believing in something besides ourselves is kind of...fulfilling. The only hard part of that is finding something to believe in...

So it comes down to how do you worship an unknown religion...and how do you make that religion known to you...?

Share your religion revelations!

I have yet to meet any set of beliefs that has more to offer than what Jesus offers. The Gospel of John is a great introduction... Don't read it as religion... but as an Exceptional Someone inviting us all into a tangible relationship with God Himself. There's no man like this one. No religion that offers what He does. (Incidentally, an excellent DVD which produces John word for word is available at Amazon. It's very well done, no wimpy pasty faced Jesus here.amazon.com/Gospel-John-Henry-Ian-Cusick ... amp;sr=8-1 ) That's my 'revelation' ( : And you're absolutely right, about the perks of believing in something besides ourselves!

"I came that they might have LIFE and have it more abundantly..." --Jesus (John 10:10)