I was just randomly browsing YouTube and came across this clip, Hitchens had some effective rhetorical points I thought
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=We7DyKWw61I
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Hitchens vs. Hannity on God
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VMLM
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Re: Hitchens vs. Hannity on God
His argument falls into the "either/or" category.
Either god created the universe or energy was created out of nothing.
Yet these are only two of many possible hypotheses (not including those we may not be aware of)
This argument is basically paramount to the following:
There's a cookie missing from the cookie jar.
Either billy ate it, or it disappeared by itself.
Yes, we don't know how the universe began. This does not prove the existence of god.
Nor would knowing how the universe began necessarily disprove the existence of god. A believer could argue that all natural phenomena and events are simply god's means for creating and controlling the universe (as indeed they do, sometimes).
EDIT: I'm sorry, I just realized Hitchens is the other guy. Yes, his improbable universal system argument is pretty effective against the intelligent design argument, but it's not definitive. An imperfect intelligently designed system is still arguably an intelligently designed system. Of course, it's more effective if we assume the creator as a perfect designer. It can also be argued (not very convincingly) that we, as mere humans, can't possibly fathom why god might have created the universe the way he did (i.e. it's not imperfect or dumb. we just can't understand it)
He also makes good use of the Catholic and Christian churches' social impact and irresponsibility. Though arguably the things he mentions (ban on contraceptive technology, pseudo-science in schools, etc.) only have such a tremendous impact because of a sadly gaping want for proper education all over the world.
It's a good video if you're objective is to gather more arguments to forum-bash Christians.
Either god created the universe or energy was created out of nothing.
Yet these are only two of many possible hypotheses (not including those we may not be aware of)
This argument is basically paramount to the following:
There's a cookie missing from the cookie jar.
Either billy ate it, or it disappeared by itself.
Yes, we don't know how the universe began. This does not prove the existence of god.
Nor would knowing how the universe began necessarily disprove the existence of god. A believer could argue that all natural phenomena and events are simply god's means for creating and controlling the universe (as indeed they do, sometimes).
EDIT: I'm sorry, I just realized Hitchens is the other guy. Yes, his improbable universal system argument is pretty effective against the intelligent design argument, but it's not definitive. An imperfect intelligently designed system is still arguably an intelligently designed system. Of course, it's more effective if we assume the creator as a perfect designer. It can also be argued (not very convincingly) that we, as mere humans, can't possibly fathom why god might have created the universe the way he did (i.e. it's not imperfect or dumb. we just can't understand it)
He also makes good use of the Catholic and Christian churches' social impact and irresponsibility. Though arguably the things he mentions (ban on contraceptive technology, pseudo-science in schools, etc.) only have such a tremendous impact because of a sadly gaping want for proper education all over the world.
It's a good video if you're objective is to gather more arguments to forum-bash Christians.
Last edited by VMLM on Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
