prayer

[lady of shallot]

Today my favorite nephew enters the hospital to have open heart surgery. He is 51 and was born missing a valve, which luckily was recently discovered. (I understand that this is the same condition that killed John Ritter)

I was speculating on how much more effective will be the prayers of those who love and care for this man and who are religious. Much more effective now in 2011, than were those of the same people for his grandfather who died of heart decease in 1971.

Isn't it interesting that the efficacy of prayer increases as the science of medicine increases.

[stahrwe]

Today my favorite nephew enters the hospital to have open heart surgery. He is 51 and was born missing a valve, which luckily was recently discovered. (I understand that this is the same condition that killed John Ritter)

I was speculating on how much more effective will be the prayers of those who love and care for this man and who are religious. Much more effective now in 2011, than were those of the same people for his grandfather who died of heart decease in 1971.

Isn't it interesting that the efficacy of prayer increases as the science of medicine increases.

You complain about being preached to and then post something like this. I suppose you want all the atheists to intertwine their fingers and looking very 'intellectual' nod in agreement and intone, 'Yes the primitive fools believing in the power of an imaginary deity.' In fact, the efficacy of prayer never changes; it did, does, and always will 'availeth much'.

[Dexter]

You complain about being preached to and then post something like this. I suppose you want all the atheists to intertwine their fingers and looking very 'intellectual' nod in agreement and intone, 'Yes the primitive fools believing in the power of an imaginary deity.' In fact, the efficacy of prayer never changes; it did, does, and always will 'availeth much'.

Do you believe that God answers personal prayers for healing? How does the Great One decide who to help? Do you have to kneel especially deep? If he intervenes on occasion, how can he (or anyone) justify letting so many innocents suffer?

[realiz]

I believe in the power of prayer, even if I don't believe in a God that sits up there listening and deciding which prayer to answer.

[stahrwe]

You complain about being preached to and then post something like this. I suppose you want all the atheists to intertwine their fingers and looking very 'intellectual' nod in agreement and intone, 'Yes the primitive fools believing in the power of an imaginary deity.' In fact, the efficacy of prayer never changes; it did, does, and always will 'availeth much'.

Do you believe that God answers personal prayers for healing?
God answers all prayers.

How does the Great One decide who to help?
I don't know who the "Great One" is. This is a serious subject and deserves to be treated with respect. If you mean God say God, with a capital G.

Do you have to kneel especially deep?
One's attitude is important but one's attitude isn't.

If he intervenes on occasion, how can he (or anyone) justify letting so many innocents suffer?

If by he you mean He/God, why would God have to justify His actions to anyone let alone you? Your question took a detour with the addition of 'anyone'. If God is not obligated to explain to you why would He explain to me, and if He doesn't explain to me how can I explain to you?

[Dexter]

How does the Great One decide who to help?
I don't know who the "Great One" is. This is a serious subject and deserves to be treated with respect. If you mean God say God, with a capital G.

I don't respect your god. I think he's a dick.

In fact I find the worship of such a figure to be offensive, so please stop. K thanks.

[Harry Marks]

Did you know that if you incline your head more than about 5 degrees you are very likely to relate in the "child" mode (out of Parent, Child and Adult, or Superego, Id and Ego)?

There is something healthy about becoming a supplicant. Just as it is healthy to cry now and then. The whole point is to stop worrying about what you can do and just dwell in your longing.

Substantial time spent in prayer also begins to bend our longing toward caring. Why would anyone be against that?

[lady of shallot]

Harry Marks:

There is something healthy about becoming a supplicant. Just as it is healthy to cry now and then. The whole point is to stop worrying about what you can do and just dwell in your longing.

There is not one sentiment expressed in this full post with which I agree. Well maybe about the "child" part of the ego.

This reminds me of a long ago happening. My grandson, then about 1 1/2 years (young enough to wear one of those footed blanket sleeper things) was swinging a French door back and forth and it was making a creaking noise, so I asked him quietly to please stop doing that. He is a very sensitive person and as we did not live near him and saw each other only infrequently and he knew I was a significant person in his life, was crushed. I didn't realize this till I saw him minutes later in another room, kneeling on the floor with his head bowed and his hands held in front of his chest. I doubt very much anyone had taught him to pray, so this attitude must have been natural to him. Of course I swooped him up and kissed him and hugged him. I did not tell him though that it was o.k. to swing the door.

I see nothing healthy about being a supplicant. In fact it is sick. It is o.k. to show respect for people like when Katherine and William bowed and curtseyed to the Queen after their wedding, but that is not the same as being a supplicant.

"Dwell in your longing?" Again very unhealthy. Why would one long for something that is unachievable? If something is sad or bad, like the situation with an old acquaintance I just ran into whose husband has dementia and is dying, of course she must bear it. But to dwell upon longing the inevitable is not so?

You are kind of interesting Harry as you think very originally and unlike anyone I have ever known. A non Christian who prays and believes in the literature of the Bible and treating people punitively for what I assume are very small infractions.

[Harry Marks]

Harry Marks:

There is something healthy about becoming a supplicant. Just as it is healthy to cry now and then. The whole point is to stop worrying about what you can do and just dwell in your longing.

There is not one sentiment expressed in this full post with which I agree. Well maybe about the "child" part of the ego.
I see nothing healthy about being a supplicant. In fact it is sick. It is o.k. to show respect for people like when Katherine and William bowed and curtseyed to the Queen after their wedding, but that is not the same as being a supplicant.

I stand by my statement. Most men have been supplicants to their wives at some point, for example. Michener makes a great deal of this in "Hawaii." If children pretend they want nothing from their parents, it is very unhealthy. Likewise we sometimes need things from others: information, feedback, validation, time, attention, etc. It is important not only to ask but to be clear we have no right to demand. Doesn't mean we are necessarily devastated if it doesn't happen. But it would be a form of denial to act as if it did not matter to us.

"Dwell in your longing?" Again very unhealthy. Why would one long for something that is unachievable? If something is sad or bad, like the situation with an old acquaintance I just ran into whose husband has dementia and is dying, of course she must bear it. But to dwell upon longing the inevitable is not so?

Martin Luther King had a dream. And he had to dwell in his longing. He had to live a life in which he made emotional space for that dream without a lot of external sustenance. He also spent a lot of time working on it and organizing and planning and all the rest. But it is vital to recharge the batteries by remembering what we long for.

You are kind of interesting Harry as you think very originally and unlike anyone I have ever known. A non Christian who prays and believes in the literature of the Bible and treating people punitively for what I assume are very small infractions.

I am a Christian, actually. I am not sorry that I don't fit your stereotype of one, but I think you would have no trouble finding people very much like me at any University church or any UCC. I think there may be some misunderstanding about treating people punitively for small infractions. I think I referred once to being overly stern. I have actually shouted at my family as well, and on one or two occasions gone beyond what I would really consider acceptable behavior in expressing anger toward my children, but not far beyond. I have been a full-time parent, and I can tell you that men are not socially equipped to manage the frustrations of raising children (many women are not, either), but that didn't stop me from doing a good job of it. But far from perfect.

You seem pretty interesting yourself. I like the advice you give - empathetic and sensible.

[Interbane]

You complain about being preached to and then post something like this. I suppose you want all the atheists to intertwine their fingers and looking very 'intellectual' nod in agreement and intone, 'Yes the primitive fools believing in the power of an imaginary deity.' In fact, the efficacy of prayer never changes; it did, does, and always will 'availeth much'.

Prayer has no effect other than placebo. It's supernatural nonsense. Studies confirm this.