Do you believe in ghosts?

[Katrina Rose]

Hi, I was recently encouraged to start a forum about why some believed in ghosts and why many do not. For me its pretty simple, because I've experienced many ghosts first hand. Ghost number two of my book died over the weekend, and her body was found on Sunday by the electric company, except she died in 1986. Thursday is her birthday. I think of her often to keep her memory alive. Tell me what you believe?

[geo]

This is a great topic. I used to like the idea of ghosts, but I don't think I ever really believed in them. When you say ghost #2 died, what exactly do you mean by that? What evidence do you have that justifies your belief in ghosts?

[geo]

Mr. Erickson, I think it's far more likely that you dreamed the "being made out of light" then that there was actually a "being made out of light." Also, having auditory hallucinations — hypnagogia — sometimes accompanies a light REM stage of sleep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

I would suggest that the idea of light beings is a concept that you want to believe and, as such, you're not so motivated to look at the matter objectively. The psychological explanation (see Wikipedia article) is actually much more plausible than the notion that there are multidimensional beings running around.

See also entry on the hypnopompic state: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnopompic

[geo]

Thanks, Mr. Erickson. Well, that's my theory based on very limited description of the event. I do think there is probably a logical explanation, but I'd love to hear more. You should know that I will almost certainly be skeptical and you may not be comfortable having people analyze what you perceive as a mystical experience.

Cheers and welcome to BookTalk.

[geo]

Ball lightning?

That's not a lot of detail to go on. But does it occur to you that what you interpret as a "being of light" could be called a ghost by one person, an alien by another, and even God by yet another? Such subjective interpretations depend on who is witnessing the event and ultimately what personal beliefs they hold. As such, any mysterious event can be construed as something supernatural. However, isn't it at least possible that the cause in this particular case is completely natural, albeit not yet studied through scientific means (due to lack of actual evidence or any kind of objective physical data)? Also, I believe there are such things as shared hallucinations. I have no idea if that's what's going on here, but it sounds like your mind's made up that this thing you believed you saw was, in fact, a being of light.

I rather like this clip from The Messenger, a movie about Joan of Arc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oSJdSL8 ... ature=plcp

[Interbane]

When the brain short circuits, people always blame the "effects" on something else. Ghosts or goblins or aliens. It's all in your head Mr. Erickson. The brain is exceptionally complex, and frequently malfunctions. Since it's also necessary for your experience of the world, malfunctions appear to be caused BY the world.

The problem I feel is that people are far to quick to dismiss other people's experiences, simply because they have never had such an experience.

People are too quick to jump to conclusions. My wife and I saw the same ghost for years in our old house. Turns out it was the way vehicles at night turned around in a nearby turnabout, where the headlights reflected off a mirror and caught on the dust motes.

You are guilty of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

[bradams]

I'm not a believer, but my grandfather is and he is as skeptical, down-to-earth and practical a person as I know. He and a friend both bought home a German flag from a naval vessel they captured in WWII and the friend with granddad at his parents' house. They both had the same dream about dead German soldiers. They told my great grandfather, who granddad says was like him but even more so, who told them they came home drunk and they'd both had the same experiences in the war and the flag triggered the dream. That night he slept in the room with the flag instead of the boys and had the exact same dream.

How do you explain it? I have no idea. I have some problems with the idea of ghosts. How do they look like a physical body when they're supposed to be non-physical and shouldn't have anything for light to reflect off? Why do they mostly appear at night? I don't believe in ghosts, but someone I know and respect does.

[geo]

We have to be careful before jumping to fantastic explanations (if we're interested in being objective). There are usually lots of more mundane and more plausible explanations that come waaay before "beings made of light." In the case of your skeptical grandfather, you might wonder how many times did he dream about dead German soldiers before the coincidence of someone else having the same dream. (If indeed that is the coincidence you're discussing? I'm not sure)

Anyway, mentalists know all about cognitive bias. During a cold reading, a mentalist might make numerous claims about you, knowing you are far more likely to remember the hits and forget the misses. So-called fortune-tellers will make numerous vague predictions (i.e. there will be an earthquake somewhere in the northern hemisphere). The fortuneteller may get 1 in 50 of these predictions right, but that one "hit" will be what folks tend to focus on. This is straightforward cognitive bias. There are numerous studies that demonstrate this.

There are many instances of people thinking about someone just before they died and we like to think there's something miraculous about it. My oldest brother recently died and my youngest brother was telling me that he had a dream about him the night he died and wasn't that amazing? But we all knew that my brother was sick and that he was probably not going to survive for long. So we were all thinking about him much more than usual. Sure, that's not really very exciting, but it's ultimately a much more plausible explanation.

[youkrst]

historical jesus, please protect me from woo woo ideas

just kidding

i'm not fussed either way, i mean if a ghost appeared before me i would probably be impressed if it could do something tricky like walk back and forth through a wall, but then i would get bored after a while and wander off probably. it would be cool if it was the ghost of bill evans, then it could show me all those wicked lines in autumn leaves (damn that version swings)

[geo]

I like the story about the chicken with no head who "lived to tell the tale." I would think that the real story here is a chicken that can talk.

But no, the story relates how "this determined bird" after having his head cut off, then returned to his job of being a chicken. "He pecked for food and preened his feathers just like the rest of his barnyard buddies."

So the real story here is that a bird after having had its head cut off can still peck for food and preen its feathers. This story just gets amazinger and amazinger.