A series of Questions

[Dissident Heart]

Quote:Man is a rope, tied between beast and ubermensch

[Frank 013]

If you could organize such an endeavor I would sign up,I always vote for BATTLE! Later

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:A series of questions:If it is true that a good number of humans are living in ways that will make our biosphere inhabitable within our lifetime, then what obligation do we have to ourselves to stop them from destroying the ecosystem and us within it?If it is impossible to reason with them or pursuade them to change their ways with scientific proofs or moral exhortations, then what should we do with them?Why not eliminate them? Why not identify the , let's say, unteachable ones and, in an act of collective self-defense, get rid of them?If tolerating their existence threatens our lives and all that we hold dear (for our families and future generations to come) then don't we have some sort of duty to find them intolerable and find ways to cease their existence?Let's be clear that this is not a matter of rounding up the usual batch of criminals that always plague human society (although we might consider why we don't simply eradicate them as well.) But we must confront the mass of humanity living in wretched ignorance and willful disregard of how their appetites and lifestyles are steadily eliminating the viability of our biosphere...and this includes the captains of industry and their legions of coordinators and managers and manipulators of public opinion and makers of public policy too.Why, or why not?If there is no God, then why would it matter?

[Saint Gasoline]

If there is a God, why does it matter?To make my point more explicit: if nothing matters if there is no "higher being", then it would make sense to say that from God's perspective "nothing matters" because there is no higher being. But if nothing matters to God, why should it matter to us?

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:To make my point more explicit: if nothing matters if there is no "higher being", then it would make sense to say that from God's perspective "nothing matters" because there is no higher being. But if nothing matters to God, why should it matter to us? From God's perspective He makes what matters and what matters to God is that we are Grateful for making us matter.Aren't you grateful of all the benefits of being a concious being?

[Frank 013]

Quote:If there is no God, then why would it matter? Well let's see,1. I care about my friends and family and want what is best for them even when I am gone.2. I genuinely care about the survival of my species and would like to help it along, rather than hinder its progress while I am here.3. I like helping.4. It's a challenge.5. Because as an atheist I don't expect God to miraculously fix the problem, I recognize that if it is going to be fixed it is up to us humans to do it. In fact an atheist NEVER has the excuse or confusion that is associated with the question of god's will. Now if there were a god I can think of several reasons not to bother.1. The apocalypse is coming so fixing the earth's problems is pointless.2. God is all powerful and if humanity is deserving he will fix it for us.3. Man should not mess with God's will and this is clearly God's will.4. I'll just pray, that'll do it!Later

[Saint Gasoline]

Quote:From God's perspective He makes what matters and what matters to God is that we are Grateful for making us matter.You grant that God has not meaning outside himself "sent from above", and you also grant that his meaning is of his own choosing. However, we also know that humans have the ability to decide for themselves what matters. Humans frequently find meaning in their lives that has nothing to do with religious meaning. If God can make his own meaning, then so can humanity, in which case your intial question of "What is the point without God" is silly. Humanity can apparently make its own meaning and purpose, just as your God supposedly can. And if that is the case, then why posit a God to explain meaning and purpose?

[Asana Bodhitharta]

Quote:Well let's see,1. I care about my friends and family and want what is best for them even when I am gone.2. I genuinely care about the survival of my species and would like to help it along, rather than hinder its progress while I am here.3. I like helping.4. It's a challenge.5. Because as an atheist I don't expect God to miraculously fix the problem, I recognize that if it is going to be fixed it is up to us humans to do it. In fact an atheist NEVER has the excuse or confusion that is associated with the question of god's will. Now if there were a god I can think of several reasons not to bother.1. The apocalypse is coming so fixing the earth's problems is pointless.2. God is all powerful and if humanity is deserving he will fix it for us.3. Man should not mess with God's will and this is clearly God's will.4. I'll just pray, that'll do it!LaterIf there is no God there is no point to the survival of your species as each generation would only pass into oblivion forever.If there is no God there is no problem to fix, because living your life selfishly would make the most sense.I spend my time spreading love and giving of myself because I love God and Mankind. I know that if I even give any part of myself to anyone it all makes sense.

[Mr. P]

as:Quote:...there is no point to the survival of your species...uh...'YOUR species'...and which species are you from? Well, it at least makes me happier to know you are not one of my species!!!Quote:I spend my time spreading love and giving of myself because I love God and MankindSo if, let's say, you did find out there is no god...you would start killing the rest of us?You are a scary fuck as(s)!Mr. P. Mr. P's place. I warned you!!!The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.The pain in hell has two sides. The kind you can touch with your hand; the kind you can feel in your heart...Scorsese's "Mean Streets"I came to kick ass and chew Bubble Gum...and I am all out of Bubble Gum - They Live, Roddy Piper

[Dissident Heart]

Bodhi: If there is no God, then why would it matter?I suppose you need to make a case for why God matters. Part of this requires describing what matters to your God. Perhaps your God requires mass elimination of the unteachable ones, and encourages terrifying bloodshed and genocidal horror: santifying such acts as necessary and holy?Frank: Quote:1. I care about my friends and family and want what is best for them even when I am gone. 2. I genuinely care about the survival of my species and would like to help it along, rather than hinder its progress while I am here. 3. I like helping. 4. It's a challenge. 5. Because as an atheist I don't expect God to miraculously fix the problem, I recognize that if it is going to be fixed it is up to us humans to do it. In fact an atheist NEVER has the excuse or confusion that is associated with the question of god's will. An atheist may never have to face the confusion of deciding what God's will is, but they don't escape the confusion of deciding what is the just and moral thing that they must do. The scenario I've outlined above asks what to do with the great number of dangerous and deadly irrational, superstitious, immoral and unteachable buffoons that populate the planet. They bring a devastating threat to your survival and the safety of the friends, family and species you love and care for. If these great masses of imbeciles are unable/unwilling to face facts and live sensibly (thereby threatening the survival of all you hold dear) why allow them to continue?Why not work to eliminate them? Again, not simply the terrorists and fanatics, but the mass of bovine crowds (and their leaders) who blindly follow or thoughtlessly consume and dangerously destroy the world you work to protect. Why not bring the best of technology and science to the problem: violent force, mind erasing, or simply launching these mass of impenetrable intellects into outerspace as waste, disposable mass nothing more?St. G: Humanity can apparently make its own meaning and purposeWhat does it mean to be surrounded by so many ignorant and dangerous humans, apparently hell-bent on personal and planetery destruction? What purpose does science hold in this case: to protect yourself and what you hold dear; or to watch patiently from the sidelines; or get on board and bring the collapse to a collosal and sublime bang? If the meaning of your life and its purpose has anything to do with protecting the people and planet you hold dear, then what are we to do with these many billions who are bringing your world to a terrible conclusion?