Belief in God

[Mr. P]

I have always pondered why people believe the things they do. I focus especially on belief in God, due to the readily apparent weight such belief has on all our lives

[the hive queen]

I have had similar conversations with people, and I have had similar concerns with this type of faith. I have heard many people say they would rather be safe than sorry, so they believe in God. They questioned my logic in covering all my bases --just in case. Supposing there was a God... I think he would hate being followed out of obligation or fear. He would want to be loved with an open heart, or that's how I picture it. He supposedly loves us and gives us free will... Wouldn't he want us to make an intelligent decision about faith -- not one based on fear? My personal belief: I have never witnessed an event that would lead me to the belief in anything other than the forces of nature. I believe that the really important issue is how one leads their life. Whether a person CLAIMS to be religious, IS religious, or is some degree atheist, they have the ability to do harm/commit crime. If there was a God, I believe he would be focused on these bigger lifestyle issues. Don't you think it comes down to that basic issue: were you a good person or a bad person. note: I believe there ARE intelligent reasons for believing in God. However, I don't think the "covering all your bases" is one of them.

[Y2Babel]

Quote:Don't you think it comes down to that basic issue: were you a good person or a bad person.I agree. While still in my early journey of questioning, I wonder if this whole God thing wasn't contrived by us (in good faith, of course) back in biblical times and groomed and shaped to encourage ourselves to act in a good way while instilling the fear that if we act in a bad way, we will suffer terrible consequences (hell, etc).

[Mr. P]

Quote:I wonder if this whole God thing wasn't contrived by us (in good faith, of course) back in biblical times and groomed and shaped to encourage ourselves to act in a good way while instilling the fear that if we act in a bad way, we will suffer terrible consequences (hell, etc). Well of course it was! To me, and I say this with no offense to you, it is one of those "DUH!" instances in life that I constantly bang my head against.Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

[Mr. P]

Quote:Supposing there was a God... I think he would hate being followed out of obligation or fear. He would want to be loved with an open heart, or that's how I picture it. He supposedly loves us and gives us free will... Wouldn't he want us to make an intelligent decision about faith -- not one based on fear? I agree. Which is why I see the creation of god(s) and religion as implicitly human. Those who would control needed more that physical mechanisms. Eternal damnation is pretty scary!But why does God always have to be good? Why could it not be possible that if there is a god, he is not a sadistic bastard - Like a bully who tortures animals for fun. Look around at this world. Would a just and loving God really punish billions of people just because Adam and Eve ate an apple? Would he punish unborn babies in Purgatory just because of original sin? Disease, murder, pollution and a myriad of other wonderous things in our world tell me that...Why do we always like to think of god as beneficent? Because we created it! Narcissistic, are we not?Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

[RickU]

An excellent brief essay on why this belief can actually be harmful is www.hankfox.com/Deadline%20Pressure.htm

[Mr. P]

Thanks for the article. It speaks volumes.The part about the slaves was noteworthy in regard to the "How We Believe" book. Shermer touches on this. Faith is a big part of oppressed people. The hope for a better time to come. Unfortunately for many, that better time HAS to be in another world, for this one will just not give them a chance. Wishful thinking.A slight twist to the danger of just missing out on life due to blind faith is that eventual salvation can be an excuse for atrocity or just immoral living..."God will forgive me". Cop out, yet again.It is strange to those of faith that Atheists or non-believers can have morals, but it is quite the opposite in my view: I find more morality in atheists than in theists. Since 95% of the population believes in a god, chances are that most of the evil we have witnessed has been perpertrated by those of faith.Let's try it the other way and see what happens...it cannot hurt!Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

[Dissident Heart]

As I see it, God-talk is more about our attitude towards reality- as a whole and in all of its parts and pieces. How we describe God or discuss the issue exposes our trust in what is uncertain and incomplete in our views of reality.When we make claims to what God is or isnt, we are uttering our fears and aspirations for what is ultimately important and fundamentally non-negotiable.Our talking about God is a talk about allegiences, alliances and where we choose to stand in the fight for survival and the healing required to survive with some degree of joy.Talking about God is talking about Love...where it comes from, how it gets here, what we need to do to hold on to it, and where we think it needs to go.Most importantly, as I see it...talking about God should empower and encourage us to love more fully and with less fear....adding to the dignity of ourselves and the world around us. Cheers.

[Mr. P]

But, speaking for myself here while assuming I speak for many more who do not believe in god, I can do all this without a god, thus reducing conflict of specific ideologies - ie my god is better than your god.Be Well,Mr. P. The one thing of which I am positive is that there is much of which to be negative - Mr. P.

[Dissident Heart]

Mr. P,If you can do it, then all the more power to you. But, by "it" I'm not sure what you mean, or why you mean "it".This is the nub of the conversation: What do you mean by "it"?