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What happens after you lose faith?

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jales4
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What happens after you lose faith?

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Hi,

This is a continuation from a brief discussion in the introductions forum, welcoming bradams.

He said:
Second, I know that it can be quite a painful experience to lose one's faith
This touched a nerve with me. I have only recently lost faith and started questioning Christianity, and this has left a void in my life.

There was a lot of comfort in taking a problem and giving it to God to solve. Without God, I have to solve the problem myself. If I had a question on how to handle a situation, I could turn to the Bible. (Which I still believe has a lot of good information on how to live a good life - I just don't believe it is divine.)

I haven't even managed to make up my mind - am I an athiest? Agnostic? Humanist? Diest? I just know what I am not - Christian.

So, what I am asking for is advice, guidance, thoughts, etc on how other people transitioned from Christianity to ?. What do you believe, where do you go for guidance?

Jan.
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Thanks for starting this thread Jan, I think I'll benefit from the discussion and hope you will too. Maybe some of those who trod the path before us may shed some light that we may gain surer footing. I'm reminded of a passage from one of my favorite poems:
The builder lifted his old gray head:
"Good friend, in the path I have come," he said,
"There followeth after me today,
A youth, whose feet must pass this way.

This chasm, that has been naught to me,
To that fair-haired youth may a pitfall be.
He, too, must cross in the twilight dim;
Good friend, I am building the bridge for him."
I have to say that I had slightly different issues to you. The main one for me was that Christianity was a part of my identity, my self-image, the lens through which I saw the world. Giving that up meant giving up part of myself. It meant that many of my past memories and ideas, previously interpreted in the light of a universe ruled over by a loving God, become meaningless.

Where do I go for guidance? I have a great admiration for the Quakers, and seek what they would call the inner light. But I couldn't become a Quaker because I don't believe that inner light is God. I also turn to the great thinkers who have come before me, both religious and non-religious. Aristotle, Aquinas, Locke, Mill, Russell, Popper, Bernard Williams among others.

Mainly I turn to the Enlightenment, where I think others first began to have similar experiences, where they first really began to think about how a world without divine intervention might work. There were precursors to this in previous ages of course, such as ancient Greece and the Renaissance but I feel the Enlightenment has had a greater and more direct influence on our present situation. I think that's why I'm so interested in the new books by Charles Taylor and A.C. Grayling because these are themes that will be explored there. I often find that when people talk about the influence Christianity has had on our culture they are really talking about the influence the Enlightenment has had on our culture, particularly through the changes it brought about within Christianity.

If I had any (tentative) advice for you Jan, it would be to avoid rushing into seeking labels for yourself. The right labels will come with time, but first you need to figure out exactly what it is that you believe. Only then will you know what label is right.

Don't rush, explore. Take your time when delving into new ideas and new ways of thinking.

Read widely! Find those who most inspire you and perhaps use them as models. I know Susan Jacoby mentions many great secular women in her book Freethinkers and perhaps one or more of them might be appropriate.

I don't know if that helps any, but I'm still thinking about it.

Brad
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jales4
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Hi bradams,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Can you share the name of the poem and the poet? I liked the quote you shared.
If I had any (tentative) advice for you Jan, it would be to avoid rushing into seeking labels for yourself. The right labels will come with time, but first you need to figure out exactly what it is that you believe. Only then will you know what label is right.

Don't rush, explore. Take your time when delving into new ideas and new ways of thinking.
I don't think it is labels I am looking for, but a belief system with standards to base my life and decisions on.

I've been doing some exploration of freethought and logical arguments, because now, I have to make decisions about what is right or wrong myself. Is abortion right or wrong? Should I commit this act to further my career? Before, I could turn to the Bible or the Ten Commandments, and I'd have my answer. Now, I have to research pros and cons and make a decision for myself.

That is a LOT of work!! And even once you've made a decision, you may read something else, or talk to someone, and then begin to question the decision.

I guess I feel like a cork bobbing around on the waves, to and fro. Unanchored. I have to reinvent my beliefs, my values, my goals.

So maybe I am unconsciously searching for a label - if I decide I am an X then I have some guidance at least. I don't know.

Have you experienced this feeling, or anyone else reading this?

Jan.
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Can you share the name of the poem and the poet? I liked the quote you shared.
It's called The Bridge Builder by Will Allen Dromgoole and can be found at http://www.storybin.com/builders/builders165.shtml

'
I've been doing some exploration of freethought and logical arguments, because now, I have to make decisions about what is right or wrong myself. Is abortion right or wrong? Should I commit this act to further my career? Before, I could turn to the Bible or the Ten Commandments, and I'd have my answer. Now, I have to research pros and cons and make a decision for myself.

That is a LOT of work!! And even once you've made a decision, you may read something else, or talk to someone, and then begin to question the decision.

I guess I feel like a cork bobbing around on the waves, to and fro. Unanchored. I have to reinvent my beliefs, my values, my goals.

So maybe I am unconsciously searching for a label - if I decide I am an X then I have some guidance at least. I don't know.
It is a lot of work, but I don't think you have to start from scratch! You probably have fairly good non-scriptural reasons for a lot of your ethical beliefs. You probably don't believe that murder is wrong solely because of the ten commandments, am I right?

So, starting from the ethical beliefs you currently hold (yes, even the most fundamental Christian ones!) you use what John Rawls calls the method of 'reflective equilibrium' to arrive at your moral judgments.

Basically you start with a moral belief, and persist in that belief until you are faced with a situation (real or imaginary) where that belief might be called into question, usually because it conflicts with another strongly held belief or value. Then you either have to find a way to reconcile them so that there is no longer a contradiction or you need to reject one or the other moral belief. The key is that any one moral belief is revisable in the light of your other moral beliefs and any further questions or difficulties that might arise from them.

Take the example (from Kohlberg) of a man who cannot afford to buy the medicine that will save his wife's life. You might believe that (a) it is wrong to steal and (b) human life is infinitely valuable. in light of the situation there is a clash between two moral beliefs or values: private property and human life. So you need to weigh up the values. One person might decide that although human life is infinitely precious it is always wrong to steal and so the man should unfortunately let his wife die. These things sometimes happen and can't be helped. Another person may decide that human life is a much higher value than private property and that it is not wrong to steal in this case.

That's a fairly brief and somewhat superficial account. A far better, but more complex description can be found at the Stanford encyclopedia of Philosophy at
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/refle ... uilibrium/
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I recently read Letting Go of God in the compilation The Best American Nonrequired Reading 2006. I found this to be a very nice, simple story of the rather earth-shaking event of losing religion. Perhaps reading that essay/story may help?

My situation was a bit odd, in that I was raised by a friend of my mothers from ages three till eight, and that was a very Catholic household. When we moved away, and my mother assumed my care, she didn't really continue any of the lessons I'd been told, and so the whole thing fell away from me (except the persistent feeling of guilt). When I hit my teens, I was agnostic for a while, until I was about 16 or 17, when I abruptly decided that believing in God was a tool for the weak. While my beliefs aren't quite so harshly judgmental now, I found it to be a scary experience... and I imagine it is quite a lot easier to slide from agnostic to atheism than from any more organized religion.

I understand a lot of people feel that without their religion they won't know right from wrong. I loved bradams summary of 'reflective equilibrium'. I have never in my adult life felt I was unqualified to make the personal decisions of moral right and wrong. Just because a book or a set of rules is no longer telling you what is alright and what is not does not mean you cannot make those decisions yourself. Who better? Especially if you take care to base those decisions in logic, rather than "Just because".

I think the main difficulty of leaving behind such things is the crushing weight of personal responsibility. Being able to give up the freedom of choice, and make decisions based on what you're told to do can be extremely relieving. It's much like moving away from home... At home, the world is taken care of for you, but you haven't a lot of personal freedom. But when you're on your own, you now have to take care of things by yourself, though you now have so much more liberty. Some people prefer to remain at home.
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jales4
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Hi Theomanic,
I loved bradams summary of 'reflective equilibrium'.
I've been reading that this weekend, and I really like it to. Thanks Bradams for the link and the explanation.

I've listened to some Julia Sweeney on Ted http://www.ted.com and search her name. She is fun to listen to, but also provides plenty of things to think about.

This is a great thread - thank you both for you responses!

Jan.
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I was just flicking through Susan Jacoby's freethinkers again and Robert Ingersoll has reminded me of another great place to turn to for those who have lost faith: William Shakespeare.

I love "The Bard" and his works have always inspired me and caused me to think and reflect. There are speculations/debates about the faith of Shakespeare, but to my mind he speaks to the human condition, not through the lens of any particular religion, regardless of what his personal faith may have been.
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I struggle, and always remind myself that though I don't believe in a Judeo-Christian God, I believe in absolutes - morality. the laws of physics, etc. - and I believe in the wisdom of others - the techniques of casting a fly rod, of writing, or the great ideas like the twelve steps, etc.; and so I try to search for the good in the world and to align myself with it,
like a navy pilot aligning his plane with a beam of light so he can land his plane on a carrier.

I don't try to believe in a loving God, or even a much better world. I try to believe that by staying in touch with everything I've learned, I can find acceptance, and I can find beauty in every moment, in every day.

I have faith that there's a lot more good fishing ahead of me.

Randy Kadish
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Re: What happens after you lose faith?

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Jales4-
jales4 wrote: I haven't even managed to make up my mind - am I an atheist? Agnostic? Humanist? Diest? I just know what I am not - Christian.
I have been having the same problems with my faith recently. I have felt extremely lost and abandoned by the church and the "christian society" that surrounds me.

Just recently I have picked up the book Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell and it has given me an extremely different outlook. He puts many things into perspective that I could not even imagine. I highly recommend this book to you. I'm not saying that it will solve the issue with your faith, but it is good to know that someone else knows what you are going through.

I hope you explore this book. Hopefully bounce some ideas back and forth :)
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'Losing faith' can be a source of bleak honesty. When Jesus was on the cross he said 'father why have you forsaken me?' It is almost as though he had believed that God would actually miraculously save him from this ugly death, and just couldn't believe it when the nails hurt and he was left alone to die.

My own faith journey has been quite unusual. My father was an academic in the English Department at Sydney University, and had a focus on spirituality and literature, so was a sincere Christian but eclectic and even heretical. My mother even more so, headed a Commission on the Status of Women in the Uniting Church, which began with the assumption that Jesus was a feminist and ended with the conclusion that the church is the main bastion of patriarchy, so mum converted to Buddhism.

I remember scripture classes at school, and being so offended by the stupidity of the fundamentalist dogmas that I went atheist for many years. At university studying philosophy I came back to the Bible on its own terms, and formed the view that Christology is a central study for understanding what it is to be human, that the connection between the contingent and the absolute is presented in the connection between the human and divine in the story of Jesus, which I now see as at the centre of history. But do I have faith? It depends what you mean. I have faith that humanity can relate to the absolute, but the notion of an interventionist God seems obsolete. God works through nature, not against it. I am scientific by temper, following Spinoza and Heidegger somewhat in this theme of nature as god. Richard Dawkins serves a useful function in bringing attention to the danger of fundamentalist faith, but he does not even touch the sort of theology I am interested in, as the fundamentalism he rebuts is highly irrational anyway.

I still see Christ as the centre of the human story, but in a highly inclusive way. I like nagualism, astrology, science, Buddhism, neoliberalism, existentialism as well, all of which seem to me to have something profound to say about human salvation. Some of these are hot buttons, to the point of being undiscussable for many, and people say to me that I can't possibly hold such diverse interests. However, for me that is part of what 'losing faith' means - being open to the challenge of integrating an eclectic mix of ideas.
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