Hmmm....

[Ragazzo]

Wow. After reading a few posts, I feel like I'm the only member who's not a Mensan. I joined Booktalk with the intent of discussing books, but after searching through the forums, I learned that books are only a part of this website. It was a gratifying surprise to learn that religion, God, afterlife, etc are also hot topics.
I am currently forming and evolving my religious beliefs. I was raised Catholic, attended Catholic schools my entire life, church on Sundays, youth church groups.... the works. As a child, I was naturally naive and ignorant; therefore, I believed what I was told. I was a typical teen, not really giving these topics any attention. It wasn't until my early twenties, when my father became ill, that I truly started to examine religion and god, as well as my beliefs. I started to notice the power of religion and its importance, not in my life, but in the lives of those around me. Well, after my father past, I basically gave the finger to whatever god i had believed in for "failing" my father. Long story short, now I'm left with a blank slate, and I don't know what to believe.
I have a major problem that I can't seem to get past with all three major religions; the disdain, prejudice and judgment of homosexuals. As a gay man, that's a major turn off. Duh. Thus, I can't seem to connect to any religion.
I dont' believe in a hell. I don't know if I believe in a god = creator (currently seeking an answer to this one). I do believe in souls. And I do believe in an inner "god". And I do believe that I am confused about it all.

Later

[Mr. P]

Hey Ragazzo!

I was a long time Catholic School boy myself. Alter boy and all! I never really accepted any of it as I look back. Oh, I of course had conflict because people I loved were telling me about god, the devil and angels and all, but some part of me never really accepted any of it. (I do not believe in souls either) It was not until I finished HS that I realized that there just was not a god. There was no one specific incident that made me turn away, as you had with your dad passing, and I am greatful for that.

I say grateful because I am very confident and content in my non-belief now. If it had come about due to being angry at 'god', I may have not have made a real break with those false and dangerous beliefs. Reason tells me there is no god. I think about it alot (less these days) and it just does not add up. It is patently obvious to me that it is all made up by humans. Humans who lack the ability to fully understand what, who and where we are in this world. We created a patch to protect the exposed hole in our knowledge and understanding.

I am glad that you at least have questioned the existence of god. I just hope you stick around here and elsewhere to explore other reasons for that non-belief. Unfortunately, booktalk is not as heavily into the material that would cover this anymore. But look back at past conversations we had when I, Mad Architect, Chris, Frank, Dissident Heart and others beat this topic to death!

And BTW...I agree with you that the way homosexuals are treated by religious people and people in general is pretty disgusting. But for religious people to be doing it is amazing to me as they always preach tolerance and love...but that is only as long as you conform to what they want.

Welcome to Booktalk.


Mr. P.

[Chris OConnor]

I'd love to get back into these topics more.

[Mr. P]

In a way me too...but I am glad for the break from it for now! I am much less pissed all the time! lol

Plus...I sense a few members would be too quick to exit if it ever got to that point again. We had some heavy battles back then and mostly all had thick skins.

Mr. P.

[Penelope]

I haven't got a thick skin - as you know, I have been known to get prickly.....but I have a lot of love and affection for people who care about the truth, warts and all.

Anyway...it wouldn't do you lot any good to sit around nodding in agreement with one another would it????

But, if I am a pain in the arse....you only have to say the word, and I promise you I will go away, and I promise you, it won't be in a huff.

I don't think a person's sexual tendancies are any of our business actually, UNLESS, and it is a BIG unless, both parties are not consenting. But sex between consenting adults is not anyone else's business.

[Mr. P]

I haven't got a thick skin - as you know, I have been known to get prickly.....but I have a lot of love and affection for people who care about the truth, warts and all.

Anyway...it wouldn't do you lot any good to sit around nodding in agreement with one another would it????

But, if I am a pain in the arse....you only have to say the word, and I promise you I will go away, and I promise you, it won't be in a huff.

I don't think a person's sexual tendancies are any of our business actually, UNLESS, and it is a BIG unless, both parties are not consenting. But sex between consenting adults is not anyone else's business.

I hope you did not take this personally. I was more making a comment on the old days. This was place was not for the casual poster or someone who could not take the heat. The battles were brutal at times and draining.

I agree with your last statement!!

[Robert Tulip]

The debate about atheism is one of the things that most attracts me to Booktalk, as it promises a robust and logical approach to absolute beliefs. However, there is much emotion and assumption in this topic which can be hard to disentangle. Debate around theology is generally superficial and at cross-purposes. Scientists observe that many theological claims are false while religionists have no interest in evidence as the basis of their world view. There is virtually no dialogue about assumptions. Richard Dawkins has decisively refuted the pre-modern method of pietism and its silly ideas such as biblical inerrancy, but this superficial debate does not touch on what people mean by belief in God. I personally believe that the Christian doctrine of God provides a necessary and sufficient basis for human salvation. However, these words

[Penelope]

Robert, how your post has made me think!

Robert said:-

[quote]I personally believe that the Christian doctrine of God provides a necessary and sufficient basis for human salvation. However, these words

[Penelope]

PS - I just had a lovely insight:

This is what the 'Man' was talking about when he warned us about putting 'New Wine' into 'Old Bottles'.

The Bottles would burst....he predicted.

[Thomas Hood]

Richard Dawkins has decisively refuted the pre-modern method of pietism and its silly ideas such as biblical inerrancy, but this superficial debate does not touch on what people mean by belief in God.

Has Dawkins done this, Robert? I doubt it. Scientist types are just as bad as conventional religionists in ignoring the empirical and conceptual context of scripture -- anybody's. God invented light on the the first day of the week, Sun-day. He separated the waters on Moon-day. I think we have a pattern here. If scientist/atheists or theologians would actually look at texts, there might be a possibility of world harmony. Otherwise, one fantasy is as arbitrary as another.

Tom