• In total there are 2 users online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 2 guests (based on users active over the past 60 minutes)
    Most users ever online was 1000 on Sun Jun 30, 2024 12:23 am

Thus Spake Zarathustra

Share your current reading list, your impressions of the books, and whether you'd recommend them to fellow community members. Authors, please do NOT post in this forum.
Forum rules
Do not promote books in this forum. Instead, promote your books in either Authors: Tell us about your FICTION book! or Authors: Tell us about your NON-FICTION book!.

All other Community Rules apply in this and all other forums.
User avatar
Theomanic

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Agrees that Reading is Fundamental
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:34 pm
16
Location: Toronto, ON
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

I have recently finished this book and would love to hear other thoughts on it. Personally, I had to force myself to continue reading it, and am really shocked that so many people have gotten such depth and meaning from it. I felt it was a meandering, misogynistic waste of time. (No Theo, tell us what you really think!) "Women are cats or birds. Or at best, cows." Thanks for that gem, Nietzsche! I can get past the sexism - after all, I'm a fan of Palahniuk and he clearly has women issues. But I felt this book almost entirely lacked in content. In a way, it seemed to be partially what it was railing against: a book of devotion, though not of religion. I understand his intent (I suppose) was to mock the Bible by mimicking its style, but man if that didn't make it a tedious experience.

If Zarathustra was real and walking around today, you can be certain he would be a cult leader. One of those creepy ones with the staring eyes and long beard, and while he preaches against lust I expect he would yet maintain a harem.

In principle I agree with a lot of the ideas I could garner - I agree in the concept of the Übermensch to some degree. Man definitely needs to overcome his baser instincts, but I would disagree with the Puritan level that Nietzsche took this to. (Again, the irony of his ideas seeming so similar to religious ideals). I also am not big on the pomp and hypocrisy of mass religion, specifically I believe he was talking of Christianity and Judaism. The main thing I had a problem with was Zarathustra's perfect omniscience. Zarathustra was an atheist Jesus for all intents and purposes. I felt in a lot of ways, Zarathustra echoed the flaws of religious leaders, and I don't think that was supposed to be ironic. One thought that really did resonate with me, which I believe he pursued in other work, is the idea of "good" and "evil" and that what society declares to be good isn't really good and vice versa. Though that doesn't seem particularly revelatory, I assume it was much more so back when this book was written. Regardless, it is something a lot of people today still don't seem to consider.

Beyond all that, I didn't find the language particularly compelling or beautiful. It just seemed like a stream of consciousness mess, maybe written like those stories in high school where someone writes one part, and then passes it to another who writes the next part... and by the end it's a little insensible because the people writing the end didn't bother reading the beginning so they don't really know what's going on.

Like I said, I would like to hear (read) any other opinions on it. Positive and negative! I fully accept that perhaps this book was beyond me and I was unable to appreciate the deeper core of it. If so, I'd sure like to have it explained! :D
"Beware those who are always reading books" - The Genius of the Crowd, by Charles Bukowski
User avatar
Interbane

1G - SILVER CONTRIBUTOR
BookTalk.org Hall of Fame
Posts: 7203
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 12:59 am
19
Location: Da U.P.
Has thanked: 1105 times
Been thanked: 2166 times
United States of America

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

Your thoughts are similar to mine. He was writing a modern version of the bible. He failed to appeal to the stupid audience, for mass acceptance. The intelligent audience looks too much into it. There are some gems of wisdom of course, but not enough to warrant trudging through.
User avatar
bookwormservice
Permanent Ink Finger
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:59 pm
14
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

Nietzsche's Zarathustra is about eternal recurrence & how acceptance of it can lead to the path of the Overman or Ubermensch. Nietzsche's Overman idea is based on his concept of transvalution, or the continuous evaluation of a persons own values and beliefs. Which leads to his other concept of nihilism (which can be active or passive) & affirming life.

The sub heading of Zarathustra is "A Book for Everyone and No One." Nietzsche didn't expect his readers to understand Zarathustra, which only reinforced his belief that he was a genius.

I personally think the guy is a psycho and he did die in a mental asylum.
User avatar
Genocide
Intern
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:43 pm
14
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

I thought he died of Syphilis? He probably did die in a funny farm though.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the sexism was done on purpose. I assumed it was a comment on how society is? Almost making it satirical? I thought it had to do with the transvaluation of all values. Society sees women as objects so he put it in his book as a way to put the way women were treated on blast. Maybe I'm just being hopeful. :]

I have a "kind of like"/"kind of hate" relationship with Nietzsche. I think he's crazy... but a heck of a lot more interesting than Locke or Hobbes.
Dropping glasses just to hear them break.
User avatar
Theomanic

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Agrees that Reading is Fundamental
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:34 pm
16
Location: Toronto, ON
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

Wikipedpia says he died of a stroke after getting pneumonia, and that his madness was diagnosed as syphilis but they don't think that's right. He was institutionalized for the last year and a half of his life.

I do not think the thoughts and opinions of Zarathustra are supposed to be ironic. I think Zarathustra was to be the paragon of Nietzsche's ideals. While the style of the novel was an ironic twist on the Bible, Zarathustra was not in any way to be taken as less than he was presented. It is sometimes difficult in this novel to determine who is saying what, but I think the passages on women are pretty clearly from Zarathustra's point of view. I have not read other works by Nietzsche, but I have heard that this theory on the nature of women is repeated in other writings.

His opinions on women aside, I didn't think much of his philosophy in Thus Spake Zarathustra. While his general idea of getting beyond the pettiness in our lives is laudable, I don't think much of the manner he intends men should do so. Some of it is tied up with his misogyny, such as his belief that men should not have lust. I get the impression he is trying to maintain certain standards and ideas of the day while doing away with the religious decrees that make them so - in essence keeping society very similar to its current state, but taking out the religious figures who he deems as hypocritical and not at all "good" as they claim to be. Maybe in his day that was a stunning idea but I don't see why he's still referenced today. Though I would agree that society still has ideas which are considered "good" but which really are not that good. The pain of reading this book wasn't really worth that one little gem, though. :)
"Beware those who are always reading books" - The Genius of the Crowd, by Charles Bukowski
User avatar
WhimsicalWonder
Upwardly Mobile
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:26 am
14
Location: The heartland
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

I started reading this last week and got distracted by Camus. Perhaps now I'll finish it and contribute something here. I am in love with this site. I just thought you all should know. :)
User avatar
Theomanic

1F - BRONZE CONTRIBUTOR
Agrees that Reading is Fundamental
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:34 pm
16
Location: Toronto, ON
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

We should know! Glad to hear it! :)

What did you read by Camus? I finally read "The Outsider" earlier this year and it wasn't at all what I expected.
"Beware those who are always reading books" - The Genius of the Crowd, by Charles Bukowski
lindad_amato
Intelligent
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:13 pm
14
Location: Connecticut
Has thanked: 75 times
Been thanked: 87 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

This doesn't sound very apealing. I think I'll pass.

Theomanic, Have you read any Kingsolver? Your thoughts?
User avatar
WhimsicalWonder
Upwardly Mobile
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:26 am
14
Location: The heartland
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

Freddy fascinates me, and whenever anyone says they don't like something despite their reasons I'm compelled to try it for myself.

I am still finishing "The Fall"... It's a rather easy read, but I was stuck with massive amounts of paperwork to complete for work and have been posting here more than reading. I got another twenty pages in this morning with my coffee though and am nearly finished.

I'm intrigued by people and the insight into another human mind like this is something I find enjoyable. I'm taken by my relationship to Jean and his overwhelming desire for virtue through selflessness which actually very selfisly motivated. I'm in complete adoration of how Camus brings to life the recognition of such in his character and the ways that it changed him. The styling is different than anything I've read in the past and I've enjoyed the feeling of direct dialouge.

I'm also a fan of Sartre's "Nausea" if that tells you anything about what I like in terms of fictional philosophical literature. ;)
User avatar
WhimsicalWonder
Upwardly Mobile
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:26 am
14
Location: The heartland
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Thus Spake Zarathustra

Unread post

You said the Outsider wasn't what you expected, but did you like it?
Post Reply

Return to “What are you currently reading?”