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what purposes do myths serve?

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Dissident Heart

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Re: One Myth

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I'm not sure what Sakis finds lacking from my attempts to make sense of Myth on this thread. I've offered a fairly comprehensive description of the functions of Myth, via Joe Campbell, and my own mythic narrative with particularly pertinent contemporary value.Myths serve multiple functions and roles and carry various degrees of import in the lives of individuals, communities, and humanity as a whole.They are poetic attempts to place chaotic and tragic human experience into a meaningful whole...a system of guideposts, symbols, signs, and tales that direct the life course of folks along purposeful paths.Myth organizes otherwise random, meaningless, pointless, and purposeless events with a unifying thread of story and plot...places all of the stuff of life onto a stage with actors, scripts, directors, and audience.I think it is inevitable, inescapable, and part and parcel of human intelligence to employ Myth.When done well, meaning with real authenticity, employing the best of our creative imagination and intellectual gravitas, individual life and human culture thrive, and live in harmony with the wondrously vibrant ecosystem out of which we arise.
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Steingerd
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Before TV

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Myths were before TV, and even - dare we say it - books. Myths sometimes had a lesson. Sometimes they were just people's way of explaining things they didn't understand with things that sound logical. One such example would be the creation of the earth. A lot of cultures have myths about how the earth was created. They didn't know. They wanted to know. They made something up that sounded good enough. Don't tell the extremely religious people I said that! Wink wink nudge nudge!

I think the world was created when The Flying Spaghetti Monster uttered an incomprehensible word with his noodly lips and a whole fleet of pirate ships were spewed forth into the newly made ocean and the greenhouse effect was noticeably reduced, thereby allowing the pirates to live and thrive and sing bawdy songs until one day when a pirate ship hit every continent in the world and they all got off and his starchiness in his infinite wisdom did smite their pirate ships with his noodly appendages and they were doomed to wander as landlubbers until such time as their yearning for the sea drew them back into piracy one by one and they began to recruit more pirates on book talk forums. Ramen. Yar!
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Robert Tulip

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viral e-myth

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Hi Steingerd, what a wonderful piece of mining the archive! This is one of Dissident Heart's classic threads. This is the sort of discussion that really attracts me to Booktalk. It opens up the true meaning of myth as the stories that give meaning to our lives. A good book on this topic is The Cry for Myth by Rollo May.

It is interesting how you discuss the myth of the Spaghetti Monster and her viral pirates. This myth has equal epistemic merit to creationism, and has become attractive as a sort of antithesis of the biblical story - showing the power of the idea of creation.
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Ophelia

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Thanks, Robert, for mentioning this book, I've read a few reviews, it sounds intriguing.

http://www.amazon.com/Cry-Myth-Rollo-May/dp/0385306857

Do you think The Cry for Myth would qualify for a future Booktalk discussion suggestion?

This thread attracted my attention because yesterday I was thinking of the myth of Bluebeard (Does Bluebeard qualify as a "myth"?) as I was reading Daphne du Maurier's Rebecca, and I came accross the following article:
"Bluebeard's Accomplice: Rebecca as a masochistic fantasy."

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199 ... ca-as.html
Ophelia.
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Robert Tulip

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Thank you Ophelia, I do think The Cry For Myth would be a good suggestion for a Booktalk non-fiction discussion. Of course, myth sits at the interface of fiction and non-fiction. Thanks also for the Amazon link. The following review from there gives a good sense of the book:
I read this book several years ago and I found it to be a fascinating read, from back to front. May's astute analysis of the place of myth within human life, sense of self and community is very sensible and relevant. Many may find his understanding of myth to be surprising, as it deviates greatly from the conventional existential perspective.

From time immemorial, cultures have woven intricate, fantastic stories, parables, myths and guiding narratives about the world, helping them to understand the universe, carve out a unique place within it and establish values. As societies grew, cultures passed these myths and stories down to their descendants. Communal traditions developed from these myths and guiding narratives, building among participants a sense of cultural kinship, identity and solace. People derived strength and direction from their guiding narratives, and these myths unified individuals in a commonality, supplying them with a vision.

Carl Jung's influence here is distinct, as May attributes the sense of meaninglessness, isolation and disoriented alienation of modern culture largely to the human "cry" for new myths (similar to Jung's Weltanschauung) that incorporate all facets of our humanity (both spirit and matter) and address our current reality.

May defines the myth as follows: "A myth is a way of making sense in a senseless world. Myths are narrative patterns that give significance to our existence [...] myths are our way of finding meaning and significance. Myths are like the beams in a house; not exposed to outside view, they are the structure which holds the house together so people can live in it." May is also careful to address our modern misunderstanding of what myth entails: "There can be no stronger proof of the impoverishment of our contemporary culture than the popular - though profoundly mistaken - definition of myth as falsehood." Read the book for more on this and for a clearer understanding of how the traditional "myth" is distinct from things like fundamentalism, or dogma. Nowhere is myth more evident than literature and the rich, vivid literature of past cultures demonstrates this. In fact, May goes to great lengths in his analysis to amply illustrate the crucial need for literature and the arts.

As scientific rationalism has swept in and usurped the position of omnipotent "God," our sense of meaningful myth has been eroded, particularly in America, where a strong sense of rich, cultural myth has not been as rooted in our understanding of community as it has in other cultures. (May discusses an entire spate of prevalent American myths, as expressed through literature.) The technological advances of the industrial age have all but completely divorced humans from the natural world, further contributing to our schizoid sense of spirit and matter. All in all, this has resulted in a severe fragmentation of community and knowledge of self, as we believe the appreciation of myth to be beneath our superior rationality and reason.

Despite this surface disdain for myth, we are still clinging to the old, impoverished myths which play a great role in our lives ("beams" in our "structure") and how we view the world, whether we realize it or not. We have not yet created new myths and guiding narratives to help us find meaning, and so we remain fragmented, repressed and separated from ourselves, the natural world and one another.

Like Jung, May asserts that self-knowledge and communal anchor arise from the search for the spiritual and awakening of the spiritual consciousness. May further asserts that our rejection of myth has left us drifting along, leaving us prone to depression, mental illness, dysfunction and fundamentalism of all kinds.

One of the elements I most appreciate about Rollo May is his ability to elegantly write readable books, without muddying the waters or losing the reader in a fog of dense language. I think that anyone who loves classic literature will also love this book, thanks to May's thorough discussion of Faust among a number of other literary and mythical characters.
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Robert Tulip wrote:. . . myth sits at the interface of fiction and non-fiction.
Myth humanizes the world with moral quality, doesn't it Robert?

Tom
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Steingerd
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Robert Tulip's reply

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The book looks neat. If you have never heard of the Flying Spaghetti Monster you can learn more by Googling the word Pastafarian. I elaborated on the Pastafarian faith by making up that myth of creation. My sister turned me on to the faith. Tee-hee. I especially love this web site because the creator seems to be a militant non believer just like my mom. A site all about books complete with Atheists, liberals, and smart people who read really really floats my little pirate boat.
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This is my area! :) LOL, I've studied it like many of you seem to have. I think in the ancient world, myths were very important. As was magic, but I won't discuss that yet, even though in some cultures, the two are intertwined.

Place yourself in an ancient world, where things happen that you can't explain, let's say, love. You need to ascribe this to somebody, and in Ancient Greece and Rome, it'd be Aphrodite/Venus, and Eros/Cupid.

Mythologies in all ancient cultures explain how the world was created, like the Rainbow Serpent in Australian Aboriginal Mythos. Another one in Ancient African i.e. Zulu or Swahili, would be How did the Leopard get his spots. Without science we had to explain our world - this is what mythology and magic do. Magic, for instance, can explain things like dreams.
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Ashleigh: Without science we had to explain our world - this is what mythology and magic do.

I think this is partly correct, but it misses something very important for our contemporary world: the myth that science can explain everything. It's a powerful myth, but a myth nonetheless. Myth is much more than just explanation: it also solidifies individual roles within a larger communal narrative and even larger cosmic, eternal context. Science describes how lots of things work...not everything...but a great deal....but every Scientist (no matter their area of expertise) is deep within a particular mythic system...offering an all-encompassing story within which they find purpose in their work, meaning in their struggles, guidelines for success, and fortitude for failures...their mythic universe shapes what they choose to look at, and why: it defines what is important work, necessary projects, and worthy goals.
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Ashleigh, you hit the nail on the head. Myths were created long ago to fill the void or gap in our knowledge of how things around us came to be or operated. Myths, including the God myth, are merely an expression of mans inherent desire to find meaning and order even when neither is readily apparent or available.

I do not agree that there is some sort of myth that science can explain everything. Being rather well-read in the sciences I can't say I have ever read even one credible scientist arguing that science can or will explain everything. So I'm not sure where you're going with that, Dissident.

Humans are curious creatures. We're animals, to be more precise. And part of our heritage was the development of a curiosity about our environment. This curiosity kept us always on the move, and being nomadic, we never had all our eggs in one basket. If a flood wiped out the population of humans (or our predecessors) down in the valley, the ones that migrated to the forests or highlands survived. Always wanting to move and explore has kept us alive, but this same curiosity has always caused us much frustration. When we see something we can't understand we get frustrated and restless.

There was a time when no matter how frustrated or restless we became, the technology of the times prohibited or hindered us from figuring out certain things we observed, such as why the sun always rose in the east and set in the west. We created a myth to answer these questions. Any time we couldn't solve something we made up an answer, right or wrong, and then our restless and curious minds could calm down for a while. Ahhhh....the sun is pulled across the sky by a horse and chariots. Good, now I can eat this bison in mental peace.

God is one of those final myths that needs to be dispelled. But this myth will take hundreds more years to conquer, because believers keep redefining their deity and attributing to him more and more vague and untestable attributes. God or gods used to control just about everything, but now that we've been to the moon, cracked the genetic code and are tampering with creating life out of non-life, the realm of God (or gods) has been shrunken smaller and smaller. Someday, if we don't annihilate ourselves, we stand a chance of getting rid of the most dangerous myth of all....God.
Last edited by Chris OConnor on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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