The abuse, molestation, torture, and neglect suffered by most serial killers is in fact the source of their moral ambiguity.

They cannot build a strong moral frame work because the very people who should be creating a safe enriching environment for them to flourish in are instead bending the metal of their young minds into twisted, mis-happen monsterous shapes.

Some people go through these abuses and make it out the other side without being murderers. I think that if we could find these people and compare their stories to that of serial killers we would see that somewhere along the lines there was a safe and normal place for them to retreat and from which to draw a counter-point to the horror of their family life.

"We know from de Waals that some of our moral behaviors are inherited from the great apes."

I want to comment on this. He's a primatologist, so is in proximity with apes often. Apes are a cherry picked species from a god's eye perspective on time. It's like picking the color red from the electromagnetic spectrum. What this ignores is that our evolution is more or less a continuum, albiet with spurts of change here and there. What this tells us is that at the point where our genes gradually diverged from Apes, we were morally similar to them. The gradations of change continue backwards in time before apes to a common ancestor, most likely with less moral complexity. They also continue forward in time to whatever we looked like between our current Homo Sapien state and apes, with a bit more moral complexity than apes.

Using apes as the comparison is due to the fact that their species is still around to analyze. Now that I have a problem with this book, I'll have to read it!

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Suzanne, you're correct about children learning from parents is where we get almost all of what we deem moral. The question to ask is, who taught the parents that tipping a waitress in the 20th century is a moral act? Much of what is considered moral comes from our parents, but with the changing of times, we adults assimilate new actions that are considered morale. That's what I was referring to when saying that new moral behavior can be determined by reason. I'm starting to think empathy is homogenized in there as well, but it's easy to see the influence of empathy vs reason as separate.

I like someone's comment in the book that, taking the phrase "descent with modification," we can choose to emphasize either the descent (or similarities) or the modifications. De Waal would appear to be stressing what we share with the apes, although being a careful person he doesn't say that we get our morality from apes, only that we would not have our morality without the foundation carried over from the distant ancestor that we share. If you choose to focus on the modifications, on the other hand, you might be inclined to see such a leap forward from the apes, that you even wonder if there might be a discontinuity, or difference in kind, evident in humans.

That's the trouble with emergent phenomena, such as the changes in evolution. Yes, you think you can see the the outlines of the past in current forms, but how much weight should these origins be given in assessing the nature of the current form? Does a creature pass into uniqueness at a certain point, regardless of the "building blocks" with ancient roots?

First, let's just get one thing straight-morality is morality, and humanity is humanity.

A lot of people confuse this. You have to think of it as a forum. You have the main forum, i.e. booktalk.org, then you have the smaller forums [subforums] such as philosphy and religion. Next you have the hundreds of threads placed in each one, and then you have the replies and comments. It's kind of like this:



Morality is something that we can refer to as "linking to any form of being." Morality governs every animal there ever was and is. Ive come up with some key factors to what composes morality:

Empathy: As some have discussed before, empathy is key to morality. When you are empathetic for another being, you become aware that you are needed and that your experience can be used for the better. It gives you a sense of belonging. Empathy is key to happiness.

Experience: Experience is, however hard, something that gives us a fresh point of view and widens our intellect. It helps us comprehend the world a little better. When you climb a large mountain, emotional or physical, when you get to the summit, you feel empowered. You feel "on top of the world". You have just gained experience. Enjoy it.

Mortality: A lot of people will wonder, "Hmm, wouldn't it be cool if I was indivisible and immortal?" No, it wouldn't. "I would rather be a meteor, flying high and bustling with andrenaline, than a sleepy and permanent planet." That's a quote I like to use. A lot of mortals long for immortality, to become a God or something such as that. Where's the fun in living forever? You have nothing to look forward to that will be instantly crushed by getting injuired or going through emotional challenges. You remain unchallenged, unharmed and unconcerned. The world around you is constantly giving in and making the world a better place for you. And yet, you don't seem to be having much fun. You don't have to worry, and you don't have to wonder what could happen next. Mortality is fun, people. And guess what, you're going to always be mortal, so get over it.

The moral behavior of animals.


http://www.wimp.com/moralbehavior/